Transcript

0:03
well good morning, good mid-morning thanks for joining us for this panel
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we’re going to dive into technology and smart on crime and we’ll try and tease
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out the different things that could mean I should say first that the panelists
0:21
before you are not entirely the panelists in your agenda
0:26
Malika from Google had a last-minute cancelation and I’m gonna put her on
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blast a little bit she’s meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada Justin
0:34
Trudeau and apparently thought that was more important than all of you but I’m
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not mad about that so which is actually great because we were able to shake
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things up a little bit and get some additional new participants we’ve got
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Kenyatta Leal all here from he’s a founding member and returning citizen of
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the last mile program at San Quentin we’ve got Jacobs sills the founder of
0:57
upthrust a company that sends text message reminders to attend court and
1:01
other obligations we have phil goff one you might have heard from him yesterday
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and one of the side panels he is one of the nation’s leading scholars on the
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phenomenon of implicit bias we’ve got Chloe Coburn here from the
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open philanthropy project and we have Augie tourists from adobo so I just want
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to say up top that we have taken a kind of a broad interpretation of tech and
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technology and I think it will hopefully make for a lively conversation we’re
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gonna hear from tech companies looking to disrupt the current marketplace and
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the current status quo of criminal justice we’ll hear about how technology
1:40
and science can capture our implicit biases and maybe hold us accountable to
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them we’ll talk a little bit about how tech leaders and Silicon Valley are
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kicking up the criminal justice reform philanthropic sector and we’ll hear from
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an individual who has used technology in the tech sector to as a pathway back to
1:59
employment and so with that what I’ll probably do is just have each of our
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panelists spend some time catching you up all up to who they are and what
2:07
they’ve been doing and then we’ll take some follow-up questions from there and
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then certainly go to the audience for questions after that so I want to start
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with with you Kenyatta can you tell us about who you are how
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you got here and just a little about your journey
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sure well thank you for having me and thank everybody for coming today
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my name is Chrisfino Kenyatta Leal like Zoe just shared with you and I’m
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the manager of Campus Services and I deal with inside sales at rocket space
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I’m also a founding member and sitting board member of the last mile program in
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San Quentin and up until about four and a half years ago though I was commonly
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referred to as inmate number H10983. I spent about 19 years
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in the California prison system under California’s three strikes law and I was
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sentenced to 25 to life for being an ex felon in possession of a firearm I
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entered a prison system at 25 years old and as you can imagine I was you know
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really afraid for my future I didn’t know what was gonna happen to me with a
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life sentence and and I was in deep denial about the role that I played in
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getting myself there I blamed everybody else it was the judge it was the DA it
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was you know my homie who snitched on me was all these other things but probably
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about five or six years into my prison sentence and I came to this inescapable
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conclusion that I was the problem I was the one who made the choices I was the
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one who put myself in that position and I was the problem you know but with that
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realization I also came to the conclusion that if I’m the problem I
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must be the solution as well and Starr I started I did the most important thing
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probably the most important thing that I did when I was in prison which was asked
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for help and as soon as I started asking for help I came from all different
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directions you know I came from counselors and family and even other
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inmates on the yard and you know I can remember one time I’m walking around the
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yard with this older gentleman and you know he was helping me sort some things
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out and he just hit me up he’s like youngster you know what it’s important
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to you where your priorities at and he gave me a little piece of paper and a
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pencil he said write down the ten most important things in your life and so I
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wrote him down a piece of paper gave it to him he looked at me square in the eye
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says youngster you got 24 hours and you work eight hours and you sleep eight
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hours how many of those remaining 8 hours do you devote to these things that
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you say are important to you I’m right then it was like a kick in the gut for
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me because I realized that while I was talking about what was important to me I
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wasn’t living it out every day of my life and so right then I began to align
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my actions with my beliefs and slowly but surely began to retake control of my
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life inside in the car serrated setting you know I said that my family was
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important to me so I started rebuilding those bonds with them I said that my
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education was important to me I went back to school I got my college degree
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to the prison University project at San Quentin became the first person in my
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family to graduate from college inside prison I also said that my community was
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important to me you know and so I started trying to figure out ways that I
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could add value to my community and at the time my community was San Quentin so
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I became a tutor and a mentor and a facilitator and a founder of other
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programs there and that’s where I met a gentleman by the name of Chris Redlitz
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he’s a venture capitalist in San Francisco he had come to San Quentin to
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give a talk about business and entrepreneurship and for me I’ve always
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had an entrepreneurial spirit I just used it in the wrong way so I felt like
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this is a great opportunity for me to transform my hustle sort of speaking do
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things the right way and so I met with Chris and his wife Beverly we formulated
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the initial curriculum for the last mile program it’s initially we focused on
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just pure entrepreneurship but in 2014 we shifted towards coding and so we
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started the first coding development boot camp inside a prison setting and
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today I’m proud to say that we’ve graduated over 200 people in the program
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we have 25 return citizens who are now all in the community doing fantastic
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work and we feel like you know there are a lot of there are a lot of different
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factors that come into play for a person successful reentry
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one of the brothers was up here talked about spirituality I firmly believe that
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that’s a huge you know factor in that at the same time you know people need
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jobs they need training and so that’s what we focus on training people with
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21st century job skills so they could enter the job market and be successful
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in this this digital world that we live in we build websites for different
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organizations like some of our clients are actually here today coalition for
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public safety built their website Dave’s killer bread foundation built their
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website so if any all need a website built you know where to go check us out
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last mile org and we’d be more than happy to help you there thank you thanks
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for that I just have a bit of a follow-up for you about the program
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itself can you talk about the relationship between the the tech
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community in in the Bay Area and San Francisco area and your program and how
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you guys have been relating with different tech companies yeah so the Bay
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Area has been a fantastic place for us to start the program you know there’s a
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lot of innovative thinkers a lot of you know just a progressive mindset in the
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Bay Area and Chris and Beverly are venture capitalists they’re VCS they
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have a you know a large portfolio of companies and so their their network is
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really revolves around you know digital media and tech companies and so they’ve
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been able to leverage that network to create opportunities for internships and
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some of those internships have turned into full-time jobs and so we’re slowly
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but surely building that consortium of businesses that’ll hire people from our
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program and I sit here today as a beneficiary of that I started off that
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the company that I’m at right now rocket space which is a technology accelerator
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in San Francisco I started off as an intern there I’ve been able to work my
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way up into management position and I just recently transitioned into sales I
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didn’t go through the coding program because it started after I got out of
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prison but the skills that I learned in the program really helped me enter that
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environment and become successful and you know I just I came into the
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environment with this mindset that I don’t care if I got a you know sweep
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floors scrape gum off the floor make coffee I’m gonna be the best floor sweep
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and gum scraping and coffee making person
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never seen and it’s that kind of mindset that’s helped me elevate to where I am
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today and that’s something that we really focus on what the program is hard
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work dedication and staying consistent believing in the process and good things
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can happen thank you that’s tremendous Jacob what’s up trust where does it come
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from why’d you think found it what was the problem you were trying to solve for
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sure so I’m a co-founder and CEO of up trust our mission is to keep people out
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of jail that don’t need to be there and specifically we focus on technical
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violations our first product is focused on helping people make it to court
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partly because if you miss court you get a bench warrant and you end up in jail
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and more than just that initial jail Inc a longer term in terms of risk
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assessments or bail setting you’re higher much more likely to end up in
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jail take your pill No and so what we sort of looked at was you know initially
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how do we keep people out of jail and to look at this around sort of issues of
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bail affordability I started attending bail hearings and sort of what we saw
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was a lot of people were missing court who had public defenders and in the
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absence of data prosecutors and judges were often doing this really bad thing
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which was conflating attendance risk with flight risk and so often you’d have
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20 percent of people not making it to court and people would say oh that
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person’s a flight risk they don’t show up to court I’m gonna set high bail or
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I’m not going to release them and that seems sort of pretty screwy and so like
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what we did was sort of innovative I guess in this context of criminal
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justice was we actually asked the defendants what was going on and we
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asked what kind of help they might need and why this may be happening and so
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sure enough it’s not that surprising it was the kinds of things that you
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probably you know also need help with so people weren’t getting the reminder that
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are getting mailed to the wrong addresses people needed child care they
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needed rides to court they had mental health issues but also as we dug deeper
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there was a lot of social emotional issues that were involved people had
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fear they had confusion and we basically thought okay wow
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there’s an opportunity here because if you knew that no one was fleeing if
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people weren’t like in law and order getting on jets and going to Paris we
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could solve that problem and for us the focus became you needed to communicate
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where people need to go you need to also communicate what types of things people
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had to prepare for but you also had to connect them and use technology to
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connect people to services in their community so if they needed a ride to
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court we might be able to provide them so with that we sort of started thinking
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about what was the right product to build and who are the right sort of
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counterparties because I think one of the problems that technology has is it
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sort of wants to like eliminate people and it says we don’t need people and we
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were like well well first off my partner Eli over there and I were sort of the
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only people sort of on the team and we were like well we can’t be in every
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state or every place to start providing this product we need allies and
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furthermore as we started looking at it we tried to say like well how would a
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system work best so so we started with text message partly because it was
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cheapest but also it had the highest open rate and then we also thought about
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well who are the right people to help us get the right phone numbers but also get
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the client information that would allow us to provide a humanized tailored
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service and for that we went to public defenders partly because when we started
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talking to court staff they said we want people to show up but we don’t want to
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know if someone has a problem making it to court they didn’t want that liability
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in public defenders were the sort of perfect Ally for us in part because they
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were already calling their clients every day and we were able to automate their
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outreach and save them time but also public defenders actually cared about
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the humans like that they were dealing with and they really want to see you
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know this impact and lastly with public defenders what was really important was
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was they were open to two-way communication going back to sort of the
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human process here we really said you know one of the things we look at is
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sort of the golden rule right like do you want to others as you do onto
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yourself and what we sort of started thinking about was like
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you know how would you want to be treated in this system you know you
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wanted people to say please say thank you use your first name not call you by
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sort of a number or something like that and so with public defenders we realized
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that if a client had an issue they could communicate that with the public
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defender and therefore sort of eradicate a lot of these sort of sloppy bench
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warrants so for example we had a case in Luzerne County Pennsylvania where we
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turned our system on there in that first day a public defender was alerted that
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their client had a funeral out of state and they would not be attending court
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that day and before we sort of had that conduit that opportunity by the way gave
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the defendant a voice that they can now sort of share we were able to sort of
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the public defender speak to a judge and say hey look I spoke to my client
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they’re not going to be there today can we move the case and they were able to
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and sort of keep someone out of jail once again not for anyone committing a
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crime but for literally having trouble managing their calendar so you know we
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launched about last summer in Contra Costa County which is a County of about
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a million people in California and we’re now in Philadelphia Luzerne County
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Pennsylvania as well as we’ll be launching soon in Baltimore in
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conjunction with the RFK Center for Human Rights and one of the things is
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it’s actually been working arguably better than we expected. 95 percent of
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people are showing up to court up from around 80 percent in a lot of the
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jurisdictions we were working before and where this is really critical from a
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policy standpoint is the bail Lobby will often say that they have required to get
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people to show up to court they provide that public good but it actually turns
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out that you know if you treat people with respect and design a system around
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their circumstance you can get the same attendance rate in a much more
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humanizing way without any monetary sort of obligation and so that’s where this
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data is really important also people take advantage of the two-way system you
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know I think one of the things that government can borrow from technology is
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sort of building products and testing them out figuring out what works and
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what doesn’t we didn’t know what people would write back to us when we spoke to
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court systems initially they said people would write screw you.
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In actuality the number one response we get is thank you which you know when you’re
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trying to start a organization it’s really cool to get thank yous back and
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we also realize that as a growing organization we couldn’t provide rides
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and childcare to everyone just getting the insurance for ride-sharing alone at
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first was going to be a hundred thousand dollars and that like broke our budget
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but we did realize well what could we do if we knew what people needed rides so
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we started having public defenders ask questions and they were do you have
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children under the age of ten and do you require childcare how are you planning
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on getting to work I mean getting to court and also do you have a daily
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obligation and where that was really important was if someone has a job how
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do we alert them and remind them to ask for time off work if someone has
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childcare needs in those childcare at the court facility how do we alert them
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of these services that are already being provided so you know what we’re trying
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to do now is sort of scale this up you know our goal is to sort of work with a
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million people in the next sort of by 2019 and what we’re doing there is
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working with public defenders both on state levels like in Baltimore once we
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sort of ramp that up in the next three months we’ll be able to go statewide in
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the state of Maryland but also large cities and counties the idea there being
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is you know criminal justice systems are so County based and so localized and
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there’s no scale and so by taking this data on a national level tailoring for
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individual communities and the resources and assets in the community we can
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actually build a platform that takes power away from systems that don’t
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always have you know human compassion fiscal responsibility at their core and
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actually provide those services in the community visa via technology and so
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we’re that’s really critical and we’re all finishes you know what our goal is
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and it’s really to transform the pretrial system from risks based to
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needs based in while that sort of seems simple and somewhat seems jargony it’s
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pretty profound everyone gets so excited about risk assessments and the idea
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there is you know what is someone a two or a three you know what kind of
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questions are we asking I mean questions of racial bias sure
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questions of bias against poor people a hundred percent if one of the major
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questions is do you you know live in a consistent house like how are we
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deciding someone’s you know right to be released pretrial on that and so how we
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sort of think about it is if you know as a fixed constant that people are gonna
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not flee really the question we need to ask is what services can we provide and
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how do we provide those services to safely release almost everyone pretrial
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in and that’s sort of what we’re working on now and we’ll be able to do so the
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questions we’re gonna be able to ask soon is we have enough arrives data that
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now we’re gonna start saying well who needs a right to court if you said I
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don’t know how you’re gonna get to court you know do we get someone from the
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community or an uber or a lyft to provide you with that because it’s a lot
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cheaper to provide someone a ride than to put them in a cage not to mention
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it’s clearly more compassionate and lastly you know trying to think about
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how do you engage the community you know jumping back quickly you know there are
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tons of people in every community that give a shit and right now they’re sort
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of locked out of most of the criminal justice process and for us whether it’s
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giving rides to court providing case management we think sort of our
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technology can sort of put that power back in the hands of the community which
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you’re going to do a lot more effective and to be honest a lot cheaper job than
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a lot of these probation departments who are running pretrial services so with
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that you know our hope is sort of with data + technology plus people we can
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keep people out of jail that don’t need to be there Thanks so your your company
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is is disrupting a couple of paradigms and systems in the larger criminal
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justice system one of them is a is a pretty well resourced bail industry
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how’s that working out for you so the secret is they don’t really well maybe
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they do now they don’t really know about us or care about us and partly is we
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sort of play dumb in the sense of like we help people make it to court that are
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released now we’re not the best there’s a lot better people here in this room
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that are better community organizers than we are that are better advocates so
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our view is let’s collect the data and hand it off to people that are better
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resource than us sort of combat that so it’s sort of to
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sneak up on them if you will okay I want to go to Auggie Torrez over here from
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from adobo can you can you talk about the problem that you were all trying to
20:14
solve for and and and the product that you’ve created yes thank you for having
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us here um my name is Augie Torres I am also formerly incarcerated I spent 20
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years in the Department of Corrections in Illinois I went to prison when I was
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16 years old one thing that I quickly learned while I was incarcerated was
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that there’s not many rehabilitative services while you’re locked up there’s
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few and far in between at least where I was at the facilities that I was placed
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in and they’re very scarce within that facility itself as well so there’s a lot
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of waiting lists some people spend maybe a year or two in a waiting list winter
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to even take their GED and after getting the GED you might spend another year or
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two trying to get on on a program to start taking some college courses so it
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took me about I would say about a year or two to get my GED after after I
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initially got into the program it took me a few months after that I got my
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associates degree back and I think I believe it was like 2000 or 2001 so from
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there until I was released in 2014 I worked on my bachelor’s degree I wasn’t
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able to I wasn’t able to complete it while incarcerated because a lot of
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different facilities didn’t have access to higher education
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so I completed it once I was released I just graduated about about a year ago so
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just putting that into perspective is if somebody wants to to really utilize that
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time and educate themselves even if they had 20 years to say you know I want I
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want to get my master’s degree and I want to do this and I want to do that
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one myself the reality is that that it would be extremely difficult for them to
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to reach that goal even with with 20 years on our hands so what did ovo does
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is it brings education and can into the carceral setting the way we do
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that is we do it via technology we we’ve developed software and we put that
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software answer on some educational tablets we work with Samsung and what we
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do is we ask facilities to bring that tablet into the facility and disperse it
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to the population and of course we want to make sure that everybody has access
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to that education free of charge so there are a couple of other players in
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the in the market that are doing something similar but what
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differentiates us from them is that we do not we make sure that that the the
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end user the person who was incarcerated never
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pays a cent for that education and that the facility takes on the responsibility
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of finance and that other players in the market what they do is they they’ll give
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the tablets for free to the to the facilities and then they’ll they’ll load
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the tablets with a lot of entertainment music movies and to have some education
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on them and then they’ll charge the end user per minute fee to use the tablets
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so of course a lot of people want to watch movies and listen to music and the
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facilities end up revenue sharing with those with those companies so they’re
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incentivized those facilities are incentivized it’s a contract with those
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who actually put some money in their pockets instead of asking them hey would
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you would you be willing to pay for some educational tools for your population so
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that’s what we’ve been able to do we’ve also recently acquired a small
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relatively small telecommunications company and what we’re doing is we
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understand that communication between those who are incarcerated and those who
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are still on the outside you know family and friends is crucial to to recidivism
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just as education as education has been shown to reduce recidivism dramatically
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and so does communication so we believe that the combination of those two things
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put together really make a huge impact on on the incarcerated population our
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end goal is to reduce the prison population the unites
24:27
dates we we’ve all heard a bunch of numbers thrown out and we’re all very
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familiar with with our incarceration rate here in the United States and
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that’s something that we need to work on and I believe that that technology is
24:40
definitely a way to tackle that problem or at least parts of that problem
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because when you some of the things that we run into with when speaking with
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facilities a lot of facilities love our product they love our idea at the love
24:55
our concept they love our mission but at the end of the day they have to figure
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out how to how to pay for it right so it’s it’s it’s they’re put in a
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situation when they say you know what I would love to so somehow get itto go
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into our facility but I have to speak with you know a few people first and see
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if we can put into our budget for next year so but that is the reality it’s
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even more expensive to hire teachers and to bring them into the facility and ask
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them to teach the entire population of course we you can’t you can’t replicate
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you can’t duplicate that interaction between a real-life teacher and the
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student you know that that connection that somebody makes with their teacher
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and their student that’s you know it’s it’s you cannot replicate it with
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technology but it’s a lot more expensive to bring somebody in from the streets
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and teach than to have technology not be a replacement but be a I want to say
25:48
lucky not it not it not it not a definitely not a substitute but more
25:55
like a a tool that that takes the place of what’s lacking just for a very small
26:01
period of time until and so um those facilities in those departments can
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begin to realize that the impact of education is worth spending that money
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on teachers coming in and teaching the population. Thanks Augie. Chloe you’ve
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worked in many positions and in criminal justice and and recently over the course
26:24
the last several years have been working for open philanthropy which is founded
26:27
by leaders in the tech industry I wanted to hear from you a little bit about what
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you think is different about this new interest from tech leaders in criminal
26:37
justice and what what is in the kind of DNA
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of some of these foundations that are coming from this young and and kind of a
26:47
young tech sector what does it mean for us what’s good about it what’s maybe not
26:51
good about it. Okay hi everyone Chloe Coburn I’m based here
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in New York I’m a lawyer by training and spent and have thought about basically
27:01
nothing other than criminal justice for 13 years I’ve litigated I’ve done policy
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and then just for the past couple of years as always said I’ve worked with a
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thing called open philanthropy based in San Francisco which is makes
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recommendations to major donors on various issues of interest
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our main donors are Dustin Moskovitz and Kerry tuna Dustin was a co-founder of
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Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg and helped run it for several years so a couple
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years ago they tasked they’re the sort of leaders of open philanthropy with
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identifying causes across a really wide array of topical areas that were
27:39
important tractable and neglected because they wanted their resources to
27:44
do the most good in the world it’s a very sort of open-ended task they said
27:51
we’re too rich they have it vacillates but something like twelve billion
27:54
dollars they want to give away in their lifetime and they said there were too we
27:57
have too much just to pick areas of interest to us you know this particular
28:02
cause of this thing that we care about because we feel an emotional connection
28:05
instead they said go research and find out where our money is most needed so
28:10
among other areas criminal justice reform came up in part cos at the time
28:14
there was much less philanthropic interest in the topic that’s changed in
28:18
the past couple of years it’s quite stunning actually it’s hard to count
28:23
because there’s a lot of money that you don’t see and then it depends on how you
28:27
define things but let’s say there was roughly 18 million dollars a year going
28:31
towards criminal justice reform two years ago and now again it’s still hard
28:36
to count but let’s say there’s it’s more like 200 million dollars a year in this
28:40
short amount of time so there’s a huge amount of interest including from
28:44
multiple tech donors Chan Zuckerberg initiative has recently announced a
28:51
number of of grants in this area as well so it’s really exciting to be in the
28:56
middle of it and we’re very much at the beginning you know philanthropy at this
29:00
neck sort of more intense level of giving us at the beginning and then as
29:04
you can see there’s just I mean you know you probably get the sense from this
29:08
whole conference but then just from from what’s happening on the stage here
29:12
there’s so many brilliant folks especially including people who are
29:17
formerly incarcerated or in other ways directly impacted who are bringing their
29:20
minds together at once to figure out these challenges both in terms of
29:24
technical challenges within the criminal justice system and then advocacy and
29:28
political challenges outside to say how has this issue fit within our social
29:32
framework so it’s it it has that kind of explosive moment that feels well-suited
29:37
to attack that kind of quick adaptive energy that embracement of risk they
29:45
sense it you know we’ll try things they may not work let’s invest in people and
29:49
ideas what I’m thankful for is that I mean this is going to potentially sound
29:57
odd but you know I’m very glad to be in the middle of that because it’s that
30:01
that beautiful explosive tech creative energy can also lead to not great
30:07
results sometimes you know people might say let’s spend let’s just solve the
30:11
whole thing we’ll put it 100 million dollars into this idea we came up with
30:14
and you know Palo Alto and it’s not actually well suited to the ground to
30:19
the actual conditions they’re trying to address so what my colleagues did you
30:25
know when they were looking for someone to help direct their work they placed a
30:28
huge emphasis on someone who was deep in the work I knew a lot of things and you
30:32
know I’m sure they interviewed many great people but the fact is that that’s
30:36
what they were looking for someone who had expertise and relationships and
30:40
would actually have a sense of how that money was going to connect to the ground
30:44
so I’m grateful for that because it wouldn’t necessarily have to go that way
30:48
you could have like tons of tech money going to just kind of weird ideas that
30:53
weren’t going to be that helpful I’m hopeful that a lot of what I’m
30:56
resourcing is going to be helpful it’s not all going to work but at least
30:59
there’s that ethic to it which I appreciate so it’s a
31:03
it’s a kind of a great you know combination again of youthful risk
31:06
tolerant and and then also humility modesty and being
31:11
interested in listening to the ground I guess the last thing I’ll say is I just
31:15
have been very I’ve been really pleasantly surprised I thought that and
31:21
Phil make totally contradicts me I thought that that I was like I’m gonna
31:26
go to Silicon Valley and they don’t understand anything about race and they
31:28
don’t understand anything about politics and I’m just gonna have to be really
31:31
sneaky because I’m like an East Coast you know advocate and in fact they’re
31:35
there I didn’t give them enough credit there’s a lot of really interesting
31:39
thoughtful smart people out there I don’t think they come out up with the
31:43
same social justice kind of frames as we might often see in the East Coast but
31:48
there is a very strong commitment to doing the most good and getting you know
31:52
nonsense out of the way to get there and so you know they didn’t blink an eye
31:57
when I recommended you know very large grant the close records campaign led by
32:01
Glenn Martin there wasn’t like well what’s his capacity and you know like do
32:06
we know it’ll work like that’s been the sort of thinking that’s prevented some
32:10
of our most exciting leaders from having like really substantial resources and
32:14
runway to do their work so you know there’s not enough I mean it’s a lot of
32:19
money but it’s totally inadequate to the task so it’s not like everyone who’s
32:22
amazing can be like really properly supported but released have the right I
32:26
think a good mindset to help go after that so the last thing I just want to
32:31
say though to connect to what else is going on in this panel so I are my
32:35
resources tend to go to sort of advocacy politics organizing power building
32:40
pressure building that kind of stuff I think that this sort of profit
32:47
for-profit industry but you know poor frapp it but be corpse type stuff that’s
32:51
going on up here on the stage is really exciting and it’s is so important
32:55
because there’s I think increasing pressure from impact investors who want
33:00
to like get into this space and I want to say like you know most people who
33:05
want to make money off of criminal justice you should run away from
33:08
screaming and so like it’s really great I’ve known Jacob for a couple of years
33:12
just meeting you guys just like your leadership is so critical like I want
33:15
you to just be way out there in front because I think you have integrity and
33:20
and like good you know intentions to actually help and
33:24
there’s plenty of others who don’t so I I would like I suppose colleagues in my
33:29
realm of nonprofit advocacy or whatever to do a better job of knowing about you
33:34
guys and lifting you up so that money that doesn’t want to just you know that
33:39
wants to go to its impact investing knows where to find a home instead of
33:43
landing in some terrible place so thanks for what you’re doing thank you for that
33:48
before we sort of start to draw some some connections here I wanted to let
33:53
Phil break down race and technology are you ready for that
33:59
not remotely he’s oh he’s told me he’s not gonna take any questions so we’re
34:04
hoping we’ll just get everything out in this first presentation no that’s right
34:08
I have this mic only so I can drop it at the up now lower your expectations I
34:13
don’t know how to talk about anything meaningful while seated which is a
34:17
problem if you’re having dinner with me but I’m hoping that nobody’s gonna mind
34:20
if I kind of head over this way because I have slides up here that we’re hoping
34:24
you’re gonna work hey look it’s me No okay great um oh did work just for say
34:31
whatever I’m gonna roam I’ll do it I’ll be Phil Donahue so I am easily the least
34:36
impressive person up here I have not had to overcome my own justice involvement I
34:42
have not invented than anything meaningful
34:45
I am not giving away millions of dollars anywhere I am the person who has been
34:51
able to interact at the intersection of all of this stuff because of some of the
34:55
generosity that we’re seeing coming out of Silicon Valley I am here at probably
35:00
at John Jay College of Criminal Justice welcome to all of you I heard a whoo my
35:05
president must be here there we go and I also run the Center for policing equity
35:10
and we’ve been dealing with the problem of how to think about and then fix
35:15
issues of race and policing right and we pretty much fixed it but up and up until
35:20
then here it’s sort of encapsulated for me because it’s been the world I’ve been
35:26
living in but as I see it in other phases of criminal justice some of the
35:29
promise and the perils of dealing with tech investment and the sort of tech
35:34
ethos around criminal justice so let me walk you through a little bit
35:36
about what that looks like for us and how Tech has helped and what I’m worried
35:42
about if that makes them sense so I got started a number of years ago and one of
35:48
the very first meetings I ever had was with a chief in the middle from a
35:52
Midwestern city and he said doc I got this concern our racial profiling
35:58
numbers are better than the county right here in the city we’re better than the
36:03
county but I don’t I don’t really know if that means that we’re great and the
36:06
county is just okay if they’re awful and we’re just slightly less awful or if
36:09
they’re terrible and we’re great I can’t tell you any of that but I can tell you
36:12
that we’re one dead black teenager away from this whole place burning to the
36:16
ground that’s striking for a number of reasons one if I hadn’t told you was in
36:21
the Midwest if I had lied and told you was on the west coast
36:24
that’s super believable or in the south of the Mountain West or the Northeast
36:27
anywhere in the United States it also encapsulates– the three major issues
36:32
that I see in reckoning with race in policing which are roughly that first
36:38
our definition of racism is massively outdated the way we think about it is
36:43
terribly bad now that used to be a harder sell for most audiences but there
36:48
are some good things that have come out of the most recent political context
36:51
that we’re in where people are arguing about whether or not yeah you know I
36:56
don’t even have to the definition of racism that we’ve got and we’ve been
36:59
focusing on is outdated we also don’t have really good measures of trying to
37:04
think about bias as opposed to disparity and then in the context of policing we
37:09
have absolutely no national data not on what police officers do we have really
37:14
terrible data on crimes that get committed but nothing national on what
37:17
police officers do so we have a terrible definition even if we had a definition
37:21
we wouldn’t know how to measure it and if we tried to figure out how to measure
37:24
it we wouldn’t have the data to do it very inspiring right all right um so I
37:29
want to make it a little bit of time on each of those cuz again this is part of
37:32
where I think the the promise and the parallettes talk about just the
37:36
definition so think about how you would define what causes discrimination
37:41
what causes racism what’s the seed of it what’s the root of it and even if you’re
37:46
very sophisticated if you answer that question for the late
37:49
the answer tends to be bad people right the color of the double changes
37:53
depending on how you’re thinking about it right what kind of discrimination but
37:56
it’s bad people and the problem is that doesn’t really fit with the data and
38:01
here’s what I mean by that this is from uh-huh what they refer to as the
38:07
Princeton trilogy I’m a Harvard guy I assume that’s because people at
38:10
Princeton can’t count past three there’s clearly five-time courses of data but
38:16
these are negative stereotypes about black people and the percentage of white
38:20
people that endorse those negative stereotypes what you see up here is that
38:24
it gets better this isn’t just political correctness
38:29
and figuring out the right set of things to say right it actually gets better and
38:34
then we ended racism in 2000 we elected a black president it was all the way
38:38
cleared right I’ll cured that used to be a funny joke
38:43
so that’s prejudice right that’s bad people that’s hearts and minds this is
38:48
inequality this expressed as a black-white ratio so if black children
38:53
were as likely to die as white children in infancy we’d see these bars here at
38:58
the white line of one not only do you see that infant mortality is above one
39:02
but for an infant mortality unemployment and poverty these things are going up
39:06
right they’re going up prejudice has improved inequality not so much and this
39:12
is part of the conundrum in policing in the face of declining prejudice people
39:17
are experiencing persistent and even increasing inequality and how the heck
39:21
do you make sense of that and then fix it that’s part of the issue when policing
39:27
say is we don’t know how haven’t had a good theory for that and that’s part of
39:30
where my lab when I was just a wee social psychologist started thinking
39:34
about how to deal with this in the context of police say so and tell you
39:38
just a couple of stories before I get done with PowerPoint stuff here and
39:42
here’s the first one so I was doing this research on what causes racial
39:47
disparities in police use of force I was doing an in Denver Colorado and we had
39:52
this idea that we brought people in the use of deadly force simulation facility
39:56
which for the nerds in the room is like the x-men’s danger room and accompanies
40:00
a couple nerds I now know where you are thank you
40:02
but for everybody else okay it’s a room where one entire wall is a projection
40:07
screen right they’ve got an actual 9-millimeter pistol it’s been
40:10
retrofitted with a laser pointer so we can see when and if they shoot we
40:14
figured if we brought them in there that concern with being seen as racist would
40:21
actually be a better predictor of racial disparities and use of force why anybody
40:26
who’s dealt with folks in law enforcement understands you how to
40:29
control the situation in order to be safe if you don’t if you’re not gonna do
40:33
what I say one of us might get hurt I usually use my moral authority my social
40:38
skills to control a situation but if you think I’m racist
40:40
I’ve got no moral authority that means I got to use my coercive physical force in
40:45
order to get compliance so we thought that that would be the case but secretly
40:49
in my head I thought yeah racist cops are just gonna do racist things as luck
40:55
would have it I’m walking out of the police academy when this is going on
40:57
when this first starts all right some of you guys got a chance to see this
41:00
yesterday I walk into a encounter this guy while I’m walking with the chief and
41:05
a district commander this guy’s in plain clothes clearly here for my study and
41:08
says hey chief who’s the guy in the suit and the chief of course says that’s dr.
41:11
Phil because that’s my curse and he looks very confused he says wait you’re
41:18
the researcher yeah you like have a PhD yeah sorry man I
41:28
don’t like black people thank you so much for showing up to my study on
41:33
racism in policing right this way sir so this guy turns out
41:36
he’s high on explicit bias high on implicit bias high on aversive racism
41:39
symbolic racism monitor racism he’s an Olympic athlete and racism he trains in
41:43
the offseason he’s gonna beat your high score okay he’s a racist he’s a bigot
41:48
but he’s low in terms of his concern with you thinking he’s a bigot he’s a
41:54
bigot and doesn’t care so in our use of deadly force training simulation this is
41:59
what that looks like oh and we should stop recording right about now because
42:04
these are HIPAA protected so everybody should not take pictures otherwise
42:07
you’re committing a federal offense and nobody wants that we good yes okay great
42:26
what are you doing yeah
42:30
you like that one you like sticks yeah you know what I mean nice to say huh hey
42:39
well you know people are getting scared because you’re waving that stick around
42:43
and banging on stuff well other people don’t like it what do you think just
42:50
feel all the racism oozing out of him right it was the most racist interaction
42:53
with so much just racism with racist sauce drizzled on just no no he saw
42:59
someone who was mentally distressed he’d be escalated like most of the officers
43:02
in the experiment did okay it’s bigoted didn’t behave in a bigot of fast fashion
43:07
towards that individual african-american now I wasn’t in the building for this
43:11
next guy but I did look at his chart by the time that we were done this next guy
43:15
I’m gonna show you is one of the only white dues-paying members of the Black
43:19
Peace Officers Association in Denver at the time so for sure some of his best
43:23
friends were black right not only that but some of his best siblings were black
43:26
he had two adopted black siblings and I have it on good authority that he only
43:29
did his sisters so he called himself a woke white dude okay low bias explicit
43:35
low implicit bias but very concerned about being seen as racist in doing his
43:42
job now this is him responding to the exact same stimulus the exact same
43:48
suspect we’re good on the recordings so this is an individual who chooses to
44:22
take someone’s life I didn’t show you the time stressing to show you the video
44:26
that they saw it’s an end policy shooting it’s also shooting probably
44:29
didn’t need to happen most of the officers don’t shoot and here for me is
44:33
the important take-home if we’re looking for bigots which is most people’s theory
44:36
of what’s going on with race and policing then we bench the first officer
44:39
which by the way I’m totally okay with but we
44:43
is the second one and that should be unacceptable
44:46
we’re gonna need accountability systems that deal with both right so how do you
44:54
do that in a context that’s come as complicated as policing right
44:57
I can’t bring everybody into one of my studies and then say well this is how
45:00
you did in the study and therefore right so what we’ve been doing for the last
45:04
four or five years now is building the National Justice database it’s the
45:08
largest database of police behavior in the world it’s a low bar but we’re still
45:11
proud um it covers about a third of the United States by population and what it
45:17
does is we collect data on police behavior that’s pedestrian stops vehicle
45:20
stops use of force we do a Climate Survey so we’ve got things like explicit
45:24
and implicit bias for a majority of officers in the cities that participate
45:28
fully with us we do Policy Analysis both quantitative and best practices and then
45:32
when we can we do residential surveys as well so we’ve got the attitudes and
45:36
biases experiences of community members so those voices are back there it’s a
45:41
very complicated process to do the right job of doing the right set of analyses
45:45
takes a long long time and it was frankly not something that was scalable
45:50
this is where tech came in for us we call it the Google factor so some of you
45:57
may have read that earlier in this year Google made a huge monetary investment
46:02
at least as far as I was concerned it’s more money than I will likely make in my
46:04
lifetime but that was not nearly as important as the next thing they did
46:09
which is they committed a team of engineers to us and right now they are
46:13
in a very dark room down by Chelsea Market working on building a software
46:16
that software automates the extraction of data from police departments the
46:21
standardizaiton, the cleaning the analysis and the english-language
46:24
translation of that analysis and here’s what that means for law enforcement and
46:29
for communities that are supposed to be protected by them it takes us about 9 to
46:33
12 months to write a report right now I take about three PhD level researchers I
46:36
cut off their eyelids and put them in a cage they’re allowed to come out when
46:38
they’re done writing 9 to 12 months by the time that we’re done building their
46:42
software which will be at the end of the calendar year it will take about 9 to 12
46:45
minutes that means every Police Department in the country can find out
46:49
not just one of the disparities but what are what is our contribution to those
46:54
disparities and the deal with the community of
46:57
communities have really enjoyed the same thing more excited than law enforcement
46:59
because they get to say we always knew it wasn’t just the cops it’s the school
47:04
districts as well it’s the jobs and not having them it’s
47:07
the answer the health care system all of which we’re able to put into the model
47:11
so they’re excited about it and we’re excited about it it’s all very very
47:15
exciting to me this is the promise of tech is that they have the ability to
47:19
make huge bets and have huge shocks of resources into something that could not
47:25
get done just by hand they have the power to magnify the potential of the
47:28
human spirit and human skill sets right so with those resources right it’s
47:35
important to get wide eyebrow drawing you through all of this stuff it wasn’t
47:38
to tell you about cpe scouts honor that’s a side benefit the real deal is
47:42
in much of the tech spaces that I’ve dealt with these are these are
47:47
professional nerds like myself okay in fact they call themselves professional
47:52
geeks where the Nerds we get dekes and nerd we have fights it’s it’s very it’s
47:55
a lot of slapping huh but the long and short of it is we all
47:58
deal with data and so it’s fun to think the data can be a solved for this and
48:02
it’s true in law enforcement if you hold police departments and shift lieutenants
48:06
accountable for their data not just in terms of crimes but also in terms of
48:09
metrics of justice I see VERA here doing ComStat 2.0 think
48:13
about this has ComStat for racial disparities that we can reduce the
48:17
racial disparities it’s very very exciting but it’s only as useful as the
48:20
theory that’s driving the data collection data are only as useful as
48:25
the theory that drives it and that creates a problem because if everybody
48:30
gets together and says we think we’ve got big bets over here what are they
48:33
ignoring over there you kind of the narrow focus or the wrong sets of people
48:37
and Martin likes to say the people who are closest to the problem are the
48:39
closest to the solution and usually the ones kept furthest away from the
48:42
resources this is an issue as tech begins to make huge bets because the data will
48:50
lead you is always a false profit right so we can go fast but in what direction
48:58
and we can go certain and confidently we can do evidence based not just evidence
49:03
in form but at what cost what are we leaving off the table I
49:08
think frankly if you I mean she’s far away from me so if I’m
49:11
embarrassing her it’ll take her a little while to get to me
49:13
I think what Chloe’s been doing it open philanthropy is one of the sort of
49:16
that’s one of the model stories from making sure you’re making the right sets
49:21
of bets because you’re talking to the people both on the ground and the people
49:24
who’ve been thinking about this for a long time but I think we have a question
49:27
as a field as an industry if you will is how do we work if tech becomes a
49:34
monopoly how do we think through this if there’s one business sector which has a
49:39
deep culture that is unfamiliar to folks who are not in it and then they become
49:45
the owners of much of the nonprofit space moving from 80 million to 200
49:50
million in the course of two years with estimates of 500 million coming annually
49:55
in the course of the next five years that swamps everything that traditional
50:00
philanthropy has been doing and so if we don’t have the right sets of theories
50:04
set up to solve our problems we’re in danger that the wrong sets of
50:08
voices will be amplified and the wrong sets of problems are gonna get solved my
50:15
home base is racism that’s the thing I study right within that I study policing
50:21
and our theories in that space are absolutely antiquated they have they’re
50:27
completely divorced from the experiences of black and brown people who’ve been
50:30
catching hell for the last 25 years black brown people been catching hell
50:33
for longer than that but the last 25 years the theory is completely divorced
50:36
from that how much more so the way that we’ve been thinking about criminal
50:39
justice without the voices of justice involved individuals so that’s a
50:44
question I don’t have an answer other than to say given the space that we’re
50:48
in and the tremendous opportunity that are the opportunities that are in front
50:51
of us I will say we got to organize we got to get the theories right we got to
50:57
decide on what you said of big bets are which means that the folks who have and
51:01
forgive me for saying this but it’s it’s a big space but an intimate group of
51:04
folks here we’ve been fighting like the the first chapter of Invisible Man
51:08
battle royale for electrified coins that public people have been giving to us
51:11
right and many of us who eat off of this I’m fortunate I’m faculty I don’t draw a
51:16
salary from CPE my only salary is because Carol lets me make it right so
51:21
and that’s stable because tenure is a nice thing to have but for
51:25
the folks who eat off of this how often have you found yourself looking at
51:29
somebody over in the same kind of space and thinking I thought we could do that
51:33
yeah that’s great but our thing is better where our thing is good too and
51:37
why can’t we and too often what that does is it prevents us from sharing and
51:43
figuring out and building what are the collaborative big bets and my concern is
51:48
to three years from now there’s gonna be too late to figure out what the right
51:52
sets of theories are you’re gonna be too far down the road on many of these
51:56
things to go backwards cuz philanthropy has a momentum of its own right Silicon
52:01
Valley it’s new to this they won’t be new to this in five years they’re gonna
52:03
be looking for results on the things they’ve already funded so my hope is as
52:07
we’re opening up to questions oh I have 22 more minutes to talk No
52:10
okay as we open this up to questions that we’re gonna have to be able to have
52:14
a conversation not just in terms of what tech can build for us but what tech
52:18
ownership does to us and with us and what our responsibility is as they are
52:24
getting comfortable making our wildest dreams possible all right that’ll be it
52:28
thank you professor before we throw the questions out to the audience I just
52:40
want to do a couple of sort of circle ups with some of the you know Chloe
52:44
touched on this point but I wanted to dig in a little bit deeper on on the
52:48
companies that are that are here and to talk about to Phil’s point around how do
52:54
we I mean I just want to hear from from from Jacob and from Oggy about how you
52:58
are growing businesses for-profit businesses and companies and leading
53:07
with a moral core in a field that has a really rough history and frankly current
53:14
reality of for-profit companies not have not being very based in a moral core I
53:22
just like to hear some of your thoughts on that yeah it’s not easy that’s the
53:28
short answer the the long answer is that we have to make sure that our values
53:33
drive every decision that we make we have we’ve written down our values
53:38
and we we go over them all the time we we have meetings and we sit down and we
53:43
talk about our values and we make sure that that everybody on the team
53:48
first of all everybody the teaming contributed to the values so it wasn’t
53:52
just one person came up with these values but so we make sure that that
53:57
when we’re making the decision that we make we’re making them with what the
54:01
mindset of you know our values come first and then we make the decision
54:04
based on our values um so in the space that we work in a lot of people are
54:10
profiting for them from those are incarcerated and we are in a position
54:13
where if we become successful we can take out those those giant companies
54:18
that have just been making hand over fist of money from those who are locked
54:21
up that’s the reason we got into telecommunications as well because it’s
54:26
it’s very expensive to make a phone call from prison or a
54:30
jail to somebody who you love and a lot of people who have who are incarcerated
54:34
have family members you know they’re a father their uncle they’re our mother
54:38
they’re our sister to somebody so staying in contact is is is is essential
54:45
so having a successful re-entry after incarceration so with those with those
54:52
um those huge contracts that are paid out to some of these companies by by
54:57
facilities and States comes revenue sharing and and revenue sharing for for
55:04
the facilities so that’s very enticing for the states and for the facility so
55:09
our job is not easy but the more we we speak on what our values are and what
55:16
our mission is and the more we were able to sit down and have these conversations
55:20
with those who are in positions to make these decisions to either bring us in or
55:26
bring somebody in they they’re able to really see that the importance of of
55:31
lower in these these prices of communication and of bringing in
55:35
education free of charge to those who are incarcerated because if you know a
55:41
company can bring in communications and education but if they’re charging huge
55:45
amounts of money to those who are incarcerated then it defeats the purpose
55:48
because only a select few or be able to afford
55:50
that and that’s that’s not that’s not a model that’s gonna kind of work because
55:55
the majority people who are incarcerated come from from a background where where
56:00
they did not have access to resources financial resources and many times
56:06
that’s the reason why they are in the position that they are in so quickly I
56:10
guess I would just say like practically the the biggest issue about a business
56:14
in this space is as a business surely you want to think about your customer
56:18
and your customer if you’re trying to sell into sort of the criminal justice
56:21
system usually doesn’t give a shit about people going through the system and so
56:26
whereas in tech usually you’re trying to think about the end user and those are
56:30
two different things here so if you if you think about yourself to limit let
56:33
like limited and try to decel product so your customer is paying you you can
56:37
often go awry if you don’t think about sort of the values and which is one of
56:41
the things we always try to say is if we ever have a request for a feature we say
56:45
does this help the end user if it doesn’t like we’ve been asked to build a
56:48
geolocation into our product we won’t build it secondly it’s an issue about
56:54
the capital formation exercise which is to say you know money comes in as an
56:59
investment and wants to see your return and so it’s tricky I think in this space
57:03
to find the right investors so for us our only outside investor that we would
57:07
take initially was like the Draper Richards Kaplan Foundation because they
57:11
were understood that we weren’t going to necessarily maximize in the short-term
57:14
profit over impact thank you great I want to hear a little bit more about
57:20
your what you’re thinking with the last mile or programs like it
57:25
in terms of how we can scale these programs you hear incredible stories
57:29
especially coming out of some with California where a lot of this
57:33
innovation has been happening and I’m just so curious you know last mile and
57:36
it started you’re one of the first founding members now it’s you were
57:39
saying graduated 500 people 200 people actually 200 how do we grow it what’s
57:46
what’s what’s stopping it from growing well you know the focus really at the
57:51
last mile has been not really to just scale immediately you can go to every
57:56
single prison right away and go shallow and wide we’re really focused on going
58:01
narrow and really deep with what we’re doing we’re trying to really bring a
58:07
sustainable program to the table so that when we do scale it doesn’t fall apart
58:12
in five years three you know three four or five years we want the last mile to
58:16
continue into the future and and you know create pathways to economics you
58:21
know sustainability for the people inside prison when they get out they can
58:26
you know break the cycle of incarceration for themselves their
58:30
families and then the community so yeah that’s where we’re at we’re really
58:34
focused on on just building the best product that we can to take to the other
58:39
places we’ve had interest from thirty other states so far and so the interest
58:43
has been there and I got to give it to Kristen Beverly because you know they
58:48
come from you know a lean startup mentality you know they’ve brought that
58:52
kind of mentality to this nonprofit and what we’re building right now is
58:56
something that I think is you’re gonna be hearing about it for years to come
59:01
just say on the scale point scale is like a beloved word of tech and
59:08
then just being in this work of course why wouldn’t you want like the good
59:11
things to be as big as possible as fast as possible helping as many people as
59:15
possible so I’m like sympathetic to that I’ve also you know and then in terms of
59:20
thinking about this problem so many of the at least advocacy solutions that
59:25
I’ve been a part of both as a practitioner now is enough and now and
59:28
as a funder haven’t felt like they’re on the path to scale and so that’s a
59:32
frustration at the same time it’s really hard for me to sort of hear this but I
59:39
think it’s important like this is as you know but Vinita was saying I suppose
59:43
yesterday people talk about it being a 40-year problem that’s more like a 400
59:47
or 4,000 your problem it’s an old problem the problems underneath the
59:50
problems though the ramp up has been recent the sorts of structures we’re
59:54
talking about the race and so like racial dynamics in this country at least
59:58
are really go very deep so it’s what I’m trying to hold is to move quickly and
60:03
establish some values and an approach and invest in like big ideas but with
60:11
the long view and the sense that like if we’re really going to take this on
60:14
if we’re really gonna accomplish the goal which for me is ending mass
60:18
incarceration in the deeper sense of the word not just reducing the number of
60:21
people in jails and prisons but ending incarcerated communities in this country
60:24
it’s gonna take a lot of time and thinking about what are the deep long
60:28
relationships that have to be built between and across different parts of
60:33
the ecosystem in order to sustain that type of effort and then what is the role
60:37
of philanthropy in relationship to that knowing by the way that I have no commit
60:41
no none of these stoners and tack are like we’re in for 20 years I mean they
60:45
say we’re risk tolerant and we can be patient at the same time they’re always
60:50
looking for how to do the most good so if if you could like cure you know
60:54
malaria tomorrow with 12 billion dollars I think they’d probably do it cuz that
60:59
would to them be the highest good and then you know potentially leaving this
61:02
in the lurch I don’t mean to say that I think that tech folks like are
61:07
irresponsible I think that they recognize like that once you start
61:10
investing in a space you have to probably follow through on that but it’s
61:13
it’s attention move fast move slow bill deep go wide like all of these things
61:18
holding it once and I could all I can say is like we’re just trying to you
61:21
know do our best with that as I suppose everyone in this room is as well thank
61:26
you I want to save some time for questions from the audience there’s
61:29
probably microphones moving around are there any yeah right down here great
61:42
hi my name is Kristen and I’m with a southern Coalition for social justice
61:46
and I’m a southerner on a mission to make the South the best place it can be
61:50
and one of the problems I struggle with someone who went to Stanford and spent
61:55
four years in the Silicon Valley is that coming back to the south there’s not a
62:00
lot of people doing this work in tech it was very limited in resources but though
62:05
there’s also a problem that a lot of these criminal justice organizations in
62:08
the south don’t know what technology could do for them so you know I know the
62:13
professor’s of Stanford to talk to you about some of these things that might
62:16
come to conferences like these it might see some of this but you know even our
62:19
most of our officers our lawyers who don’t even know that there might be a
62:24
code that could be written to save them so many hours of time or to find these
62:29
research opportunities and so I two-part question of how can we help criminal
62:34
justice organizations that don’t come from the major cities or major urban
62:37
areas understand how to use tech for their work and then also how can we
62:42
build out this technology support system for when they do know how to use the
62:47
tech and want to implement it in our organization thank you
62:51
I just I’m gonna put you on the spot Jacob because you we had a great
62:55
discussion about Mississippi earlier but any open it up to the larger sure so I
62:59
think a few things so one is sometimes people like there needs to be a
63:04
demystification of tech and so like the system that Eli and I built to start was
63:09
like not some app that required like 20 million dollars from venture capital
63:13
funding so I think some of it is just like understanding what’s out there some
63:16
of its leveraging organizations that do want to do good so there’s like one
63:20
Benetech there’s also like Code for America and fine like local groups that
63:25
are you know able to ride these services I guess this relates to certain areas in
63:29
the south yeah like it’s tricky like we’re trying to figure out ways to work
63:33
in Mississippi and it’s tough because there’s not like a county funded public
63:38
defender and so how do we sort of tie into their system and provide our
63:41
outreach it’s tricky so to some extent it’s sort
63:44
of a chicken the egg problem it’s a technology issue but it’s also sort of
63:47
structural
63:54
baahir Mujahid of the southern Coalition for social justice and all of us or none
63:59
which is the organization comprised the formerly incarcerated individuals and
64:03
their family I worked with this intelligent young lady in the south and
64:08
what she says is true I have something to say
64:12
your name sir with the glasses – yes sir to the right of mr. cells yes sir your
64:17
name again you sir fell I’m a community organizer so the value of what you said
64:25
that we must organize and keep the impacted ones involved in the influence
64:31
of data it’s very important so I’m gonna take that back into what I’m doing but
64:36
mr. sills what you’re doing is a very wonderful thing as far as participatory
64:41
defense goes helping people get to court so they don’t get jammed up with them
64:46
FTAs I’m amazed you know they had this thing called trap star and you know it’s
64:52
to stop people from getting caught up in our traffic stops but it’s information
64:57
fed by the individual that rides by and see the stop Doug does each attorney you
65:04
know put that data in each and every case they have so it terms of like how
65:09
our stuff works so what we do is we tie into like the county case management
65:13
system or the public defender and so they just have to give us some
65:16
information about the needs and then we’re able to tie in and say oh we know
65:20
you know Jacobs got a court date in a week we know he has a you know he goes
65:25
to school so let’s remind him to you know make sure to manage his schedule so
65:28
we can take all that and automate it okay and how can I get that to Durham
65:33
North Carolina if this we can we can talk afterwards thank you alright and
65:37
another thing I learned something about apparel sir
65:40
in the state of Oklahoma they have automatic card readers that can scan the
65:46
technology that can scan your money in account and sees it where you’re aware
65:52
of that the state of Oklahoma’s law enforcement Department do you have
65:56
anything to counter that or how can we resist that coming
66:00
oh shit I don’t think I heard it all the way yeah were you aware that law
66:07
enforcement in the state of Oklahoma has a device that can read your card and
66:12
seize the money off of it should they believe that the money is associated
66:17
with an illicit activity so you’re saying read your card meaning
66:22
like a credit card or a debit yes sir and they can actually seize money from
66:26
the yes sir they you educated man no okay well I
66:31
challenge you to look it up and then the path of peril that has me very paranoid
66:36
you know because black men are getting tackled for conceal open carry guns so
66:42
imagine if you dress nice and the money you got was your income tax thank you
66:48
thank you take more questions you’ve final thoughts from any of the panelists
66:59
here I just want to say that you know there are so many men and women on the
67:07
inside who are serving time right now who are just you know working really
67:12
really hard to transform their lives and it’s conferences like this people
67:15
concerned citizens out here coming from all different you know backgrounds and
67:20
different organizations coming together to speak on these issues and take next
67:23
steps to move things forward you know it’s easy to lose hope you know when
67:27
you’re on the inside you don’t really you’re not aware of these kind of
67:29
conferences that are happening and you know I’m going in to CIW we’re
67:34
launching the program their last mile at California Institute for women next week
67:38
and I can’t wait to share with them what I saw here over the last two days you
67:44
know all the passion and work that’s gone into this and I just feel really
67:47
hopeful about the future and I I plan on sharing that hope with them when I go
67:51
there next week so thank you everybody for coming thank you to all our
67:56
panelists thank you for for joining us
68:07
you

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