Transcript 0:03 well good morning, good mid-morning thanks for joining us for this panel 0:08 we’re going to dive into technology and smart on crime and we’ll try and tease 0:14 out the different things that could mean I should say first that the panelists 0:21 before you are not entirely the panelists in your agenda 0:26 Malika from Google had a last-minute cancelation and I’m gonna put her on 0:31 blast a little bit she’s meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada Justin 0:34 Trudeau and apparently thought that was more important than all of you but I’m 0:38 not mad about that so which is actually great because we were able to shake 0:42 things up a little bit and get some additional new participants we’ve got 0:47 Kenyatta Leal all here from he’s a founding member and returning citizen of 0:53 the last mile program at San Quentin we’ve got Jacobs sills the founder of 0:57 upthrust a company that sends text message reminders to attend court and 1:01 other obligations we have phil goff one you might have heard from him yesterday 1:06 and one of the side panels he is one of the nation’s leading scholars on the 1:09 phenomenon of implicit bias we’ve got Chloe Coburn here from the 1:13 open philanthropy project and we have Augie tourists from adobo so I just want 1:19 to say up top that we have taken a kind of a broad interpretation of tech and 1:25 technology and I think it will hopefully make for a lively conversation we’re 1:30 gonna hear from tech companies looking to disrupt the current marketplace and 1:34 the current status quo of criminal justice we’ll hear about how technology 1:40 and science can capture our implicit biases and maybe hold us accountable to 1:44 them we’ll talk a little bit about how tech leaders and Silicon Valley are 1:49 kicking up the criminal justice reform philanthropic sector and we’ll hear from 1:53 an individual who has used technology in the tech sector to as a pathway back to 1:59 employment and so with that what I’ll probably do is just have each of our 2:03 panelists spend some time catching you up all up to who they are and what 2:07 they’ve been doing and then we’ll take some follow-up questions from there and 2:10 then certainly go to the audience for questions after that so I want to start 2:14 with with you Kenyatta can you tell us about who you are how 2:19 you got here and just a little about your journey 2:22 sure well thank you for having me and thank everybody for coming today 2:25 my name is Chrisfino Kenyatta Leal like Zoe just shared with you and I’m 2:30 the manager of Campus Services and I deal with inside sales at rocket space 2:34 I’m also a founding member and sitting board member of the last mile program in 2:39 San Quentin and up until about four and a half years ago though I was commonly 2:45 referred to as inmate number H10983. I spent about 19 years 2:52 in the California prison system under California’s three strikes law and I was 2:56 sentenced to 25 to life for being an ex felon in possession of a firearm I 3:01 entered a prison system at 25 years old and as you can imagine I was you know 3:08 really afraid for my future I didn’t know what was gonna happen to me with a 3:12 life sentence and and I was in deep denial about the role that I played in 3:16 getting myself there I blamed everybody else it was the judge it was the DA it 3:21 was you know my homie who snitched on me was all these other things but probably 3:25 about five or six years into my prison sentence and I came to this inescapable 3:31 conclusion that I was the problem I was the one who made the choices I was the 3:37 one who put myself in that position and I was the problem you know but with that 3:42 realization I also came to the conclusion that if I’m the problem I 3:46 must be the solution as well and Starr I started I did the most important thing 3:50 probably the most important thing that I did when I was in prison which was asked 3:54 for help and as soon as I started asking for help I came from all different 3:58 directions you know I came from counselors and family and even other 4:03 inmates on the yard and you know I can remember one time I’m walking around the 4:08 yard with this older gentleman and you know he was helping me sort some things 4:12 out and he just hit me up he’s like youngster you know what it’s important 4:15 to you where your priorities at and he gave me a little piece of paper and a 4:19 pencil he said write down the ten most important things in your life and so I 4:23 wrote him down a piece of paper gave it to him he looked at me square in the eye 4:27 says youngster you got 24 hours and you work eight hours and you sleep eight 4:33 hours how many of those remaining 8 hours do you devote to these things that 4:37 you say are important to you I’m right then it was like a kick in the gut for 4:41 me because I realized that while I was talking about what was important to me I 4:46 wasn’t living it out every day of my life and so right then I began to align 4:51 my actions with my beliefs and slowly but surely began to retake control of my 4:56 life inside in the car serrated setting you know I said that my family was 5:01 important to me so I started rebuilding those bonds with them I said that my 5:06 education was important to me I went back to school I got my college degree 5:09 to the prison University project at San Quentin became the first person in my 5:13 family to graduate from college inside prison I also said that my community was 5:23 important to me you know and so I started trying to figure out ways that I 5:27 could add value to my community and at the time my community was San Quentin so 5:31 I became a tutor and a mentor and a facilitator and a founder of other 5:35 programs there and that’s where I met a gentleman by the name of Chris Redlitz 5:39 he’s a venture capitalist in San Francisco he had come to San Quentin to 5:43 give a talk about business and entrepreneurship and for me I’ve always 5:47 had an entrepreneurial spirit I just used it in the wrong way so I felt like 5:51 this is a great opportunity for me to transform my hustle sort of speaking do 5:55 things the right way and so I met with Chris and his wife Beverly we formulated 5:59 the initial curriculum for the last mile program it’s initially we focused on 6:06 just pure entrepreneurship but in 2014 we shifted towards coding and so we 6:11 started the first coding development boot camp inside a prison setting and 6:16 today I’m proud to say that we’ve graduated over 200 people in the program 6:21 we have 25 return citizens who are now all in the community doing fantastic 6:27 work and we feel like you know there are a lot of there are a lot of different 6:30 factors that come into play for a person successful reentry 6:35 one of the brothers was up here talked about spirituality I firmly believe that 6:38 that’s a huge you know factor in that at the same time you know people need 6:42 jobs they need training and so that’s what we focus on training people with 6:46 21st century job skills so they could enter the job market and be successful 6:50 in this this digital world that we live in we build websites for different 6:56 organizations like some of our clients are actually here today coalition for 7:01 public safety built their website Dave’s killer bread foundation built their 7:05 website so if any all need a website built you know where to go check us out 7:09 last mile org and we’d be more than happy to help you there thank you thanks 7:17 for that I just have a bit of a follow-up for you about the program 7:22 itself can you talk about the relationship between the the tech 7:25 community in in the Bay Area and San Francisco area and your program and how 7:31 you guys have been relating with different tech companies yeah so the Bay 7:34 Area has been a fantastic place for us to start the program you know there’s a 7:38 lot of innovative thinkers a lot of you know just a progressive mindset in the 7:42 Bay Area and Chris and Beverly are venture capitalists they’re VCS they 7:46 have a you know a large portfolio of companies and so their their network is 7:51 really revolves around you know digital media and tech companies and so they’ve 7:55 been able to leverage that network to create opportunities for internships and 8:01 some of those internships have turned into full-time jobs and so we’re slowly 8:06 but surely building that consortium of businesses that’ll hire people from our 8:11 program and I sit here today as a beneficiary of that I started off that 8:16 the company that I’m at right now rocket space which is a technology accelerator 8:20 in San Francisco I started off as an intern there I’ve been able to work my 8:25 way up into management position and I just recently transitioned into sales I 8:30 didn’t go through the coding program because it started after I got out of 8:33 prison but the skills that I learned in the program really helped me enter that 8:37 environment and become successful and you know I just I came into the 8:41 environment with this mindset that I don’t care if I got a you know sweep 8:45 floors scrape gum off the floor make coffee I’m gonna be the best floor sweep 8:50 and gum scraping and coffee making person 8:53 never seen and it’s that kind of mindset that’s helped me elevate to where I am 8:56 today and that’s something that we really focus on what the program is hard 9:00 work dedication and staying consistent believing in the process and good things 9:05 can happen thank you that’s tremendous Jacob what’s up trust where does it come 9:11 from why’d you think found it what was the problem you were trying to solve for 9:14 sure so I’m a co-founder and CEO of up trust our mission is to keep people out 9:20 of jail that don’t need to be there and specifically we focus on technical 9:24 violations our first product is focused on helping people make it to court 9:29 partly because if you miss court you get a bench warrant and you end up in jail 9:34 and more than just that initial jail Inc a longer term in terms of risk 9:39 assessments or bail setting you’re higher much more likely to end up in 9:42 jail take your pill No and so what we sort of looked at was you know initially 9:52 how do we keep people out of jail and to look at this around sort of issues of 9:57 bail affordability I started attending bail hearings and sort of what we saw 10:02 was a lot of people were missing court who had public defenders and in the 10:08 absence of data prosecutors and judges were often doing this really bad thing 10:13 which was conflating attendance risk with flight risk and so often you’d have 10:17 20 percent of people not making it to court and people would say oh that 10:21 person’s a flight risk they don’t show up to court I’m gonna set high bail or 10:25 I’m not going to release them and that seems sort of pretty screwy and so like 10:31 what we did was sort of innovative I guess in this context of criminal 10:35 justice was we actually asked the defendants what was going on and we 10:39 asked what kind of help they might need and why this may be happening and so 10:43 sure enough it’s not that surprising it was the kinds of things that you 10:47 probably you know also need help with so people weren’t getting the reminder that 10:50 are getting mailed to the wrong addresses people needed child care they 10:55 needed rides to court they had mental health issues but also as we dug deeper 11:00 there was a lot of social emotional issues that were involved people had 11:05 fear they had confusion and we basically thought okay wow 11:10 there’s an opportunity here because if you knew that no one was fleeing if 11:15 people weren’t like in law and order getting on jets and going to Paris we 11:19 could solve that problem and for us the focus became you needed to communicate 11:23 where people need to go you need to also communicate what types of things people 11:28 had to prepare for but you also had to connect them and use technology to 11:32 connect people to services in their community so if they needed a ride to 11:36 court we might be able to provide them so with that we sort of started thinking 11:40 about what was the right product to build and who are the right sort of 11:46 counterparties because I think one of the problems that technology has is it 11:50 sort of wants to like eliminate people and it says we don’t need people and we 11:55 were like well well first off my partner Eli over there and I were sort of the 11:59 only people sort of on the team and we were like well we can’t be in every 12:03 state or every place to start providing this product we need allies and 12:06 furthermore as we started looking at it we tried to say like well how would a 12:10 system work best so so we started with text message partly because it was 12:14 cheapest but also it had the highest open rate and then we also thought about 12:18 well who are the right people to help us get the right phone numbers but also get 12:23 the client information that would allow us to provide a humanized tailored 12:27 service and for that we went to public defenders partly because when we started 12:32 talking to court staff they said we want people to show up but we don’t want to 12:37 know if someone has a problem making it to court they didn’t want that liability 12:41 in public defenders were the sort of perfect Ally for us in part because they 12:45 were already calling their clients every day and we were able to automate their 12:50 outreach and save them time but also public defenders actually cared about 12:55 the humans like that they were dealing with and they really want to see you 13:00 know this impact and lastly with public defenders what was really important was 13:06 was they were open to two-way communication going back to sort of the 13:10 human process here we really said you know one of the things we look at is 13:14 sort of the golden rule right like do you want to others as you do onto 13:17 yourself and what we sort of started thinking about was like 13:20 you know how would you want to be treated in this system you know you 13:23 wanted people to say please say thank you use your first name not call you by 13:28 sort of a number or something like that and so with public defenders we realized 13:33 that if a client had an issue they could communicate that with the public 13:37 defender and therefore sort of eradicate a lot of these sort of sloppy bench 13:40 warrants so for example we had a case in Luzerne County Pennsylvania where we 13:45 turned our system on there in that first day a public defender was alerted that 13:49 their client had a funeral out of state and they would not be attending court 13:53 that day and before we sort of had that conduit that opportunity by the way gave 13:58 the defendant a voice that they can now sort of share we were able to sort of 14:03 the public defender speak to a judge and say hey look I spoke to my client 14:07 they’re not going to be there today can we move the case and they were able to 14:11 and sort of keep someone out of jail once again not for anyone committing a 14:15 crime but for literally having trouble managing their calendar so you know we 14:22 launched about last summer in Contra Costa County which is a County of about 14:25 a million people in California and we’re now in Philadelphia Luzerne County 14:28 Pennsylvania as well as we’ll be launching soon in Baltimore in 14:33 conjunction with the RFK Center for Human Rights and one of the things is 14:37 it’s actually been working arguably better than we expected. 95 percent of 14:42 people are showing up to court up from around 80 percent in a lot of the 14:46 jurisdictions we were working before and where this is really critical from a 14:50 policy standpoint is the bail Lobby will often say that they have required to get 14:56 people to show up to court they provide that public good but it actually turns 15:00 out that you know if you treat people with respect and design a system around 15:04 their circumstance you can get the same attendance rate in a much more 15:07 humanizing way without any monetary sort of obligation and so that’s where this 15:12 data is really important also people take advantage of the two-way system you 15:18 know I think one of the things that government can borrow from technology is 15:21 sort of building products and testing them out figuring out what works and 15:25 what doesn’t we didn’t know what people would write back to us when we spoke to 15:28 court systems initially they said people would write screw you. 15:33 In actuality the number one response we get is thank you which you know when you’re 15:38 trying to start a organization it’s really cool to get thank yous back and 15:43 we also realize that as a growing organization we couldn’t provide rides 15:47 and childcare to everyone just getting the insurance for ride-sharing alone at 15:52 first was going to be a hundred thousand dollars and that like broke our budget 15:55 but we did realize well what could we do if we knew what people needed rides so 16:00 we started having public defenders ask questions and they were do you have 16:03 children under the age of ten and do you require childcare how are you planning 16:07 on getting to work I mean getting to court and also do you have a daily 16:10 obligation and where that was really important was if someone has a job how 16:14 do we alert them and remind them to ask for time off work if someone has 16:18 childcare needs in those childcare at the court facility how do we alert them 16:22 of these services that are already being provided so you know what we’re trying 16:28 to do now is sort of scale this up you know our goal is to sort of work with a 16:32 million people in the next sort of by 2019 and what we’re doing there is 16:38 working with public defenders both on state levels like in Baltimore once we 16:41 sort of ramp that up in the next three months we’ll be able to go statewide in 16:45 the state of Maryland but also large cities and counties the idea there being 16:49 is you know criminal justice systems are so County based and so localized and 16:54 there’s no scale and so by taking this data on a national level tailoring for 16:59 individual communities and the resources and assets in the community we can 17:04 actually build a platform that takes power away from systems that don’t 17:09 always have you know human compassion fiscal responsibility at their core and 17:17 actually provide those services in the community visa via technology and so 17:22 we’re that’s really critical and we’re all finishes you know what our goal is 17:25 and it’s really to transform the pretrial system from risks based to 17:30 needs based in while that sort of seems simple and somewhat seems jargony it’s 17:34 pretty profound everyone gets so excited about risk assessments and the idea 17:39 there is you know what is someone a two or a three you know what kind of 17:43 questions are we asking I mean questions of racial bias sure 17:47 questions of bias against poor people a hundred percent if one of the major 17:53 questions is do you you know live in a consistent house like how are we 17:56 deciding someone’s you know right to be released pretrial on that and so how we 18:01 sort of think about it is if you know as a fixed constant that people are gonna 18:07 not flee really the question we need to ask is what services can we provide and 18:11 how do we provide those services to safely release almost everyone pretrial 18:17 in and that’s sort of what we’re working on now and we’ll be able to do so the 18:20 questions we’re gonna be able to ask soon is we have enough arrives data that 18:24 now we’re gonna start saying well who needs a right to court if you said I 18:27 don’t know how you’re gonna get to court you know do we get someone from the 18:31 community or an uber or a lyft to provide you with that because it’s a lot 18:34 cheaper to provide someone a ride than to put them in a cage not to mention 18:38 it’s clearly more compassionate and lastly you know trying to think about 18:42 how do you engage the community you know jumping back quickly you know there are 18:48 tons of people in every community that give a shit and right now they’re sort 18:52 of locked out of most of the criminal justice process and for us whether it’s 18:56 giving rides to court providing case management we think sort of our 19:00 technology can sort of put that power back in the hands of the community which 19:04 you’re going to do a lot more effective and to be honest a lot cheaper job than 19:07 a lot of these probation departments who are running pretrial services so with 19:11 that you know our hope is sort of with data + technology plus people we can 19:17 keep people out of jail that don’t need to be there Thanks so your your company 19:22 is is disrupting a couple of paradigms and systems in the larger criminal 19:29 justice system one of them is a is a pretty well resourced bail industry 19:36 how’s that working out for you so the secret is they don’t really well maybe 19:39 they do now they don’t really know about us or care about us and partly is we 19:42 sort of play dumb in the sense of like we help people make it to court that are 19:47 released now we’re not the best there’s a lot better people here in this room 19:52 that are better community organizers than we are that are better advocates so 19:55 our view is let’s collect the data and hand it off to people that are better 19:59 resource than us sort of combat that so it’s sort of to 20:02 sneak up on them if you will okay I want to go to Auggie Torrez over here from 20:09 from adobo can you can you talk about the problem that you were all trying to 20:14 solve for and and and the product that you’ve created yes thank you for having 20:20 us here um my name is Augie Torres I am also formerly incarcerated I spent 20 20:27 years in the Department of Corrections in Illinois I went to prison when I was 20:30 16 years old one thing that I quickly learned while I was incarcerated was 20:36 that there’s not many rehabilitative services while you’re locked up there’s 20:44 few and far in between at least where I was at the facilities that I was placed 20:48 in and they’re very scarce within that facility itself as well so there’s a lot 20:55 of waiting lists some people spend maybe a year or two in a waiting list winter 20:59 to even take their GED and after getting the GED you might spend another year or 21:05 two trying to get on on a program to start taking some college courses so it 21:12 took me about I would say about a year or two to get my GED after after I 21:18 initially got into the program it took me a few months after that I got my 21:23 associates degree back and I think I believe it was like 2000 or 2001 so from 21:28 there until I was released in 2014 I worked on my bachelor’s degree I wasn’t 21:34 able to I wasn’t able to complete it while incarcerated because a lot of 21:38 different facilities didn’t have access to higher education 21:41 so I completed it once I was released I just graduated about about a year ago so 21:48 just putting that into perspective is if somebody wants to to really utilize that 21:53 time and educate themselves even if they had 20 years to say you know I want I 21:56 want to get my master’s degree and I want to do this and I want to do that 21:59 one myself the reality is that that it would be extremely difficult for them to 22:03 to reach that goal even with with 20 years on our hands so what did ovo does 22:10 is it brings education and can into the carceral setting the way we do 22:16 that is we do it via technology we we’ve developed software and we put that 22:21 software answer on some educational tablets we work with Samsung and what we 22:26 do is we ask facilities to bring that tablet into the facility and disperse it 22:33 to the population and of course we want to make sure that everybody has access 22:37 to that education free of charge so there are a couple of other players in 22:41 the in the market that are doing something similar but what 22:45 differentiates us from them is that we do not we make sure that that the the 22:50 end user the person who was incarcerated never 22:53 pays a cent for that education and that the facility takes on the responsibility 23:00 of finance and that other players in the market what they do is they they’ll give 23:06 the tablets for free to the to the facilities and then they’ll they’ll load 23:11 the tablets with a lot of entertainment music movies and to have some education 23:17 on them and then they’ll charge the end user per minute fee to use the tablets 23:25 so of course a lot of people want to watch movies and listen to music and the 23:32 facilities end up revenue sharing with those with those companies so they’re 23:36 incentivized those facilities are incentivized it’s a contract with those 23:41 who actually put some money in their pockets instead of asking them hey would 23:44 you would you be willing to pay for some educational tools for your population so 23:49 that’s what we’ve been able to do we’ve also recently acquired a small 23:54 relatively small telecommunications company and what we’re doing is we 24:00 understand that communication between those who are incarcerated and those who 24:04 are still on the outside you know family and friends is crucial to to recidivism 24:09 just as education as education has been shown to reduce recidivism dramatically 24:15 and so does communication so we believe that the combination of those two things 24:19 put together really make a huge impact on on the incarcerated population our 24:24 end goal is to reduce the prison population the unites 24:27 dates we we’ve all heard a bunch of numbers thrown out and we’re all very 24:32 familiar with with our incarceration rate here in the United States and 24:36 that’s something that we need to work on and I believe that that technology is 24:40 definitely a way to tackle that problem or at least parts of that problem 24:46 because when you some of the things that we run into with when speaking with 24:52 facilities a lot of facilities love our product they love our idea at the love 24:55 our concept they love our mission but at the end of the day they have to figure 24:59 out how to how to pay for it right so it’s it’s it’s they’re put in a 25:02 situation when they say you know what I would love to so somehow get itto go 25:06 into our facility but I have to speak with you know a few people first and see 25:11 if we can put into our budget for next year so but that is the reality it’s 25:16 even more expensive to hire teachers and to bring them into the facility and ask 25:20 them to teach the entire population of course we you can’t you can’t replicate 25:25 you can’t duplicate that interaction between a real-life teacher and the 25:29 student you know that that connection that somebody makes with their teacher 25:31 and their student that’s you know it’s it’s you cannot replicate it with 25:35 technology but it’s a lot more expensive to bring somebody in from the streets 25:40 and teach than to have technology not be a replacement but be a I want to say 25:48 lucky not it not it not it not a definitely not a substitute but more 25:55 like a a tool that that takes the place of what’s lacking just for a very small 26:01 period of time until and so um those facilities in those departments can 26:05 begin to realize that the impact of education is worth spending that money 26:10 on teachers coming in and teaching the population. Thanks Augie. Chloe you’ve 26:17 worked in many positions and in criminal justice and and recently over the course 26:24 the last several years have been working for open philanthropy which is founded 26:27 by leaders in the tech industry I wanted to hear from you a little bit about what 26:33 you think is different about this new interest from tech leaders in criminal 26:37 justice and what what is in the kind of DNA 26:40 of some of these foundations that are coming from this young and and kind of a 26:47 young tech sector what does it mean for us what’s good about it what’s maybe not 26:51 good about it. Okay hi everyone Chloe Coburn I’m based here 26:56 in New York I’m a lawyer by training and spent and have thought about basically 27:01 nothing other than criminal justice for 13 years I’ve litigated I’ve done policy 27:06 and then just for the past couple of years as always said I’ve worked with a 27:09 thing called open philanthropy based in San Francisco which is makes 27:14 recommendations to major donors on various issues of interest 27:18 our main donors are Dustin Moskovitz and Kerry tuna Dustin was a co-founder of 27:23 Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg and helped run it for several years so a couple 27:29 years ago they tasked they’re the sort of leaders of open philanthropy with 27:34 identifying causes across a really wide array of topical areas that were 27:39 important tractable and neglected because they wanted their resources to 27:44 do the most good in the world it’s a very sort of open-ended task they said 27:51 we’re too rich they have it vacillates but something like twelve billion 27:54 dollars they want to give away in their lifetime and they said there were too we 27:57 have too much just to pick areas of interest to us you know this particular 28:02 cause of this thing that we care about because we feel an emotional connection 28:05 instead they said go research and find out where our money is most needed so 28:10 among other areas criminal justice reform came up in part cos at the time 28:14 there was much less philanthropic interest in the topic that’s changed in 28:18 the past couple of years it’s quite stunning actually it’s hard to count 28:23 because there’s a lot of money that you don’t see and then it depends on how you 28:27 define things but let’s say there was roughly 18 million dollars a year going 28:31 towards criminal justice reform two years ago and now again it’s still hard 28:36 to count but let’s say there’s it’s more like 200 million dollars a year in this 28:40 short amount of time so there’s a huge amount of interest including from 28:44 multiple tech donors Chan Zuckerberg initiative has recently announced a 28:51 number of of grants in this area as well so it’s really exciting to be in the 28:56 middle of it and we’re very much at the beginning you know philanthropy at this 29:00 neck sort of more intense level of giving us at the beginning and then as 29:04 you can see there’s just I mean you know you probably get the sense from this 29:08 whole conference but then just from from what’s happening on the stage here 29:12 there’s so many brilliant folks especially including people who are 29:17 formerly incarcerated or in other ways directly impacted who are bringing their 29:20 minds together at once to figure out these challenges both in terms of 29:24 technical challenges within the criminal justice system and then advocacy and 29:28 political challenges outside to say how has this issue fit within our social 29:32 framework so it’s it it has that kind of explosive moment that feels well-suited 29:37 to attack that kind of quick adaptive energy that embracement of risk they 29:45 sense it you know we’ll try things they may not work let’s invest in people and 29:49 ideas what I’m thankful for is that I mean this is going to potentially sound 29:57 odd but you know I’m very glad to be in the middle of that because it’s that 30:01 that beautiful explosive tech creative energy can also lead to not great 30:07 results sometimes you know people might say let’s spend let’s just solve the 30:11 whole thing we’ll put it 100 million dollars into this idea we came up with 30:14 and you know Palo Alto and it’s not actually well suited to the ground to 30:19 the actual conditions they’re trying to address so what my colleagues did you 30:25 know when they were looking for someone to help direct their work they placed a 30:28 huge emphasis on someone who was deep in the work I knew a lot of things and you 30:32 know I’m sure they interviewed many great people but the fact is that that’s 30:36 what they were looking for someone who had expertise and relationships and 30:40 would actually have a sense of how that money was going to connect to the ground 30:44 so I’m grateful for that because it wouldn’t necessarily have to go that way 30:48 you could have like tons of tech money going to just kind of weird ideas that 30:53 weren’t going to be that helpful I’m hopeful that a lot of what I’m 30:56 resourcing is going to be helpful it’s not all going to work but at least 30:59 there’s that ethic to it which I appreciate so it’s a 31:03 it’s a kind of a great you know combination again of youthful risk 31:06 tolerant and and then also humility modesty and being 31:11 interested in listening to the ground I guess the last thing I’ll say is I just 31:15 have been very I’ve been really pleasantly surprised I thought that and 31:21 Phil make totally contradicts me I thought that that I was like I’m gonna 31:26 go to Silicon Valley and they don’t understand anything about race and they 31:28 don’t understand anything about politics and I’m just gonna have to be really 31:31 sneaky because I’m like an East Coast you know advocate and in fact they’re 31:35 there I didn’t give them enough credit there’s a lot of really interesting 31:39 thoughtful smart people out there I don’t think they come out up with the 31:43 same social justice kind of frames as we might often see in the East Coast but 31:48 there is a very strong commitment to doing the most good and getting you know 31:52 nonsense out of the way to get there and so you know they didn’t blink an eye 31:57 when I recommended you know very large grant the close records campaign led by 32:01 Glenn Martin there wasn’t like well what’s his capacity and you know like do 32:06 we know it’ll work like that’s been the sort of thinking that’s prevented some 32:10 of our most exciting leaders from having like really substantial resources and 32:14 runway to do their work so you know there’s not enough I mean it’s a lot of 32:19 money but it’s totally inadequate to the task so it’s not like everyone who’s 32:22 amazing can be like really properly supported but released have the right I 32:26 think a good mindset to help go after that so the last thing I just want to 32:31 say though to connect to what else is going on in this panel so I are my 32:35 resources tend to go to sort of advocacy politics organizing power building 32:40 pressure building that kind of stuff I think that this sort of profit 32:47 for-profit industry but you know poor frapp it but be corpse type stuff that’s 32:51 going on up here on the stage is really exciting and it’s is so important 32:55 because there’s I think increasing pressure from impact investors who want 33:00 to like get into this space and I want to say like you know most people who 33:05 want to make money off of criminal justice you should run away from 33:08 screaming and so like it’s really great I’ve known Jacob for a couple of years 33:12 just meeting you guys just like your leadership is so critical like I want 33:15 you to just be way out there in front because I think you have integrity and 33:20 and like good you know intentions to actually help and 33:24 there’s plenty of others who don’t so I I would like I suppose colleagues in my 33:29 realm of nonprofit advocacy or whatever to do a better job of knowing about you 33:34 guys and lifting you up so that money that doesn’t want to just you know that 33:39 wants to go to its impact investing knows where to find a home instead of 33:43 landing in some terrible place so thanks for what you’re doing thank you for that 33:48 before we sort of start to draw some some connections here I wanted to let 33:53 Phil break down race and technology are you ready for that 33:59 not remotely he’s oh he’s told me he’s not gonna take any questions so we’re 34:04 hoping we’ll just get everything out in this first presentation no that’s right 34:08 I have this mic only so I can drop it at the up now lower your expectations I 34:13 don’t know how to talk about anything meaningful while seated which is a 34:17 problem if you’re having dinner with me but I’m hoping that nobody’s gonna mind 34:20 if I kind of head over this way because I have slides up here that we’re hoping 34:24 you’re gonna work hey look it’s me No okay great um oh did work just for say 34:31 whatever I’m gonna roam I’ll do it I’ll be Phil Donahue so I am easily the least 34:36 impressive person up here I have not had to overcome my own justice involvement I 34:42 have not invented than anything meaningful 34:45 I am not giving away millions of dollars anywhere I am the person who has been 34:51 able to interact at the intersection of all of this stuff because of some of the 34:55 generosity that we’re seeing coming out of Silicon Valley I am here at probably 35:00 at John Jay College of Criminal Justice welcome to all of you I heard a whoo my 35:05 president must be here there we go and I also run the Center for policing equity 35:10 and we’ve been dealing with the problem of how to think about and then fix 35:15 issues of race and policing right and we pretty much fixed it but up and up until 35:20 then here it’s sort of encapsulated for me because it’s been the world I’ve been 35:26 living in but as I see it in other phases of criminal justice some of the 35:29 promise and the perils of dealing with tech investment and the sort of tech 35:34 ethos around criminal justice so let me walk you through a little bit 35:36 about what that looks like for us and how Tech has helped and what I’m worried 35:42 about if that makes them sense so I got started a number of years ago and one of 35:48 the very first meetings I ever had was with a chief in the middle from a 35:52 Midwestern city and he said doc I got this concern our racial profiling 35:58 numbers are better than the county right here in the city we’re better than the 36:03 county but I don’t I don’t really know if that means that we’re great and the 36:06 county is just okay if they’re awful and we’re just slightly less awful or if 36:09 they’re terrible and we’re great I can’t tell you any of that but I can tell you 36:12 that we’re one dead black teenager away from this whole place burning to the 36:16 ground that’s striking for a number of reasons one if I hadn’t told you was in 36:21 the Midwest if I had lied and told you was on the west coast 36:24 that’s super believable or in the south of the Mountain West or the Northeast 36:27 anywhere in the United States it also encapsulates– the three major issues 36:32 that I see in reckoning with race in policing which are roughly that first 36:38 our definition of racism is massively outdated the way we think about it is 36:43 terribly bad now that used to be a harder sell for most audiences but there 36:48 are some good things that have come out of the most recent political context 36:51 that we’re in where people are arguing about whether or not yeah you know I 36:56 don’t even have to the definition of racism that we’ve got and we’ve been 36:59 focusing on is outdated we also don’t have really good measures of trying to 37:04 think about bias as opposed to disparity and then in the context of policing we 37:09 have absolutely no national data not on what police officers do we have really 37:14 terrible data on crimes that get committed but nothing national on what 37:17 police officers do so we have a terrible definition even if we had a definition 37:21 we wouldn’t know how to measure it and if we tried to figure out how to measure 37:24 it we wouldn’t have the data to do it very inspiring right all right um so I 37:29 want to make it a little bit of time on each of those cuz again this is part of 37:32 where I think the the promise and the parallettes talk about just the 37:36 definition so think about how you would define what causes discrimination 37:41 what causes racism what’s the seed of it what’s the root of it and even if you’re 37:46 very sophisticated if you answer that question for the late 37:49 the answer tends to be bad people right the color of the double changes 37:53 depending on how you’re thinking about it right what kind of discrimination but 37:56 it’s bad people and the problem is that doesn’t really fit with the data and 38:01 here’s what I mean by that this is from uh-huh what they refer to as the 38:07 Princeton trilogy I’m a Harvard guy I assume that’s because people at 38:10 Princeton can’t count past three there’s clearly five-time courses of data but 38:16 these are negative stereotypes about black people and the percentage of white 38:20 people that endorse those negative stereotypes what you see up here is that 38:24 it gets better this isn’t just political correctness 38:29 and figuring out the right set of things to say right it actually gets better and 38:34 then we ended racism in 2000 we elected a black president it was all the way 38:38 cleared right I’ll cured that used to be a funny joke 38:43 so that’s prejudice right that’s bad people that’s hearts and minds this is 38:48 inequality this expressed as a black-white ratio so if black children 38:53 were as likely to die as white children in infancy we’d see these bars here at 38:58 the white line of one not only do you see that infant mortality is above one 39:02 but for an infant mortality unemployment and poverty these things are going up 39:06 right they’re going up prejudice has improved inequality not so much and this 39:12 is part of the conundrum in policing in the face of declining prejudice people 39:17 are experiencing persistent and even increasing inequality and how the heck 39:21 do you make sense of that and then fix it that’s part of the issue when policing 39:27 say is we don’t know how haven’t had a good theory for that and that’s part of 39:30 where my lab when I was just a wee social psychologist started thinking 39:34 about how to deal with this in the context of police say so and tell you 39:38 just a couple of stories before I get done with PowerPoint stuff here and 39:42 here’s the first one so I was doing this research on what causes racial 39:47 disparities in police use of force I was doing an in Denver Colorado and we had 39:52 this idea that we brought people in the use of deadly force simulation facility 39:56 which for the nerds in the room is like the x-men’s danger room and accompanies 40:00 a couple nerds I now know where you are thank you 40:02 but for everybody else okay it’s a room where one entire wall is a projection 40:07 screen right they’ve got an actual 9-millimeter pistol it’s been 40:10 retrofitted with a laser pointer so we can see when and if they shoot we 40:14 figured if we brought them in there that concern with being seen as racist would 40:21 actually be a better predictor of racial disparities and use of force why anybody 40:26 who’s dealt with folks in law enforcement understands you how to 40:29 control the situation in order to be safe if you don’t if you’re not gonna do 40:33 what I say one of us might get hurt I usually use my moral authority my social 40:38 skills to control a situation but if you think I’m racist 40:40 I’ve got no moral authority that means I got to use my coercive physical force in 40:45 order to get compliance so we thought that that would be the case but secretly 40:49 in my head I thought yeah racist cops are just gonna do racist things as luck 40:55 would have it I’m walking out of the police academy when this is going on 40:57 when this first starts all right some of you guys got a chance to see this 41:00 yesterday I walk into a encounter this guy while I’m walking with the chief and 41:05 a district commander this guy’s in plain clothes clearly here for my study and 41:08 says hey chief who’s the guy in the suit and the chief of course says that’s dr. 41:11 Phil because that’s my curse and he looks very confused he says wait you’re 41:18 the researcher yeah you like have a PhD yeah sorry man I 41:28 don’t like black people thank you so much for showing up to my study on 41:33 racism in policing right this way sir so this guy turns out 41:36 he’s high on explicit bias high on implicit bias high on aversive racism 41:39 symbolic racism monitor racism he’s an Olympic athlete and racism he trains in 41:43 the offseason he’s gonna beat your high score okay he’s a racist he’s a bigot 41:48 but he’s low in terms of his concern with you thinking he’s a bigot he’s a 41:54 bigot and doesn’t care so in our use of deadly force training simulation this is 41:59 what that looks like oh and we should stop recording right about now because 42:04 these are HIPAA protected so everybody should not take pictures otherwise 42:07 you’re committing a federal offense and nobody wants that we good yes okay great 42:26 what are you doing yeah 42:30 you like that one you like sticks yeah you know what I mean nice to say huh hey 42:39 well you know people are getting scared because you’re waving that stick around 42:43 and banging on stuff well other people don’t like it what do you think just 42:50 feel all the racism oozing out of him right it was the most racist interaction 42:53 with so much just racism with racist sauce drizzled on just no no he saw 42:59 someone who was mentally distressed he’d be escalated like most of the officers 43:02 in the experiment did okay it’s bigoted didn’t behave in a bigot of fast fashion 43:07 towards that individual african-american now I wasn’t in the building for this 43:11 next guy but I did look at his chart by the time that we were done this next guy 43:15 I’m gonna show you is one of the only white dues-paying members of the Black 43:19 Peace Officers Association in Denver at the time so for sure some of his best 43:23 friends were black right not only that but some of his best siblings were black 43:26 he had two adopted black siblings and I have it on good authority that he only 43:29 did his sisters so he called himself a woke white dude okay low bias explicit 43:35 low implicit bias but very concerned about being seen as racist in doing his 43:42 job now this is him responding to the exact same stimulus the exact same 43:48 suspect we’re good on the recordings so this is an individual who chooses to 44:22 take someone’s life I didn’t show you the time stressing to show you the video 44:26 that they saw it’s an end policy shooting it’s also shooting probably 44:29 didn’t need to happen most of the officers don’t shoot and here for me is 44:33 the important take-home if we’re looking for bigots which is most people’s theory 44:36 of what’s going on with race and policing then we bench the first officer 44:39 which by the way I’m totally okay with but we 44:43 is the second one and that should be unacceptable 44:46 we’re gonna need accountability systems that deal with both right so how do you 44:54 do that in a context that’s come as complicated as policing right 44:57 I can’t bring everybody into one of my studies and then say well this is how 45:00 you did in the study and therefore right so what we’ve been doing for the last 45:04 four or five years now is building the National Justice database it’s the 45:08 largest database of police behavior in the world it’s a low bar but we’re still 45:11 proud um it covers about a third of the United States by population and what it 45:17 does is we collect data on police behavior that’s pedestrian stops vehicle 45:20 stops use of force we do a Climate Survey so we’ve got things like explicit 45:24 and implicit bias for a majority of officers in the cities that participate 45:28 fully with us we do Policy Analysis both quantitative and best practices and then 45:32 when we can we do residential surveys as well so we’ve got the attitudes and 45:36 biases experiences of community members so those voices are back there it’s a 45:41 very complicated process to do the right job of doing the right set of analyses 45:45 takes a long long time and it was frankly not something that was scalable 45:50 this is where tech came in for us we call it the Google factor so some of you 45:57 may have read that earlier in this year Google made a huge monetary investment 46:02 at least as far as I was concerned it’s more money than I will likely make in my 46:04 lifetime but that was not nearly as important as the next thing they did 46:09 which is they committed a team of engineers to us and right now they are 46:13 in a very dark room down by Chelsea Market working on building a software 46:16 that software automates the extraction of data from police departments the 46:21 standardizaiton, the cleaning the analysis and the english-language 46:24 translation of that analysis and here’s what that means for law enforcement and 46:29 for communities that are supposed to be protected by them it takes us about 9 to 46:33 12 months to write a report right now I take about three PhD level researchers I 46:36 cut off their eyelids and put them in a cage they’re allowed to come out when 46:38 they’re done writing 9 to 12 months by the time that we’re done building their 46:42 software which will be at the end of the calendar year it will take about 9 to 12 46:45 minutes that means every Police Department in the country can find out 46:49 not just one of the disparities but what are what is our contribution to those 46:54 disparities and the deal with the community of 46:57 communities have really enjoyed the same thing more excited than law enforcement 46:59 because they get to say we always knew it wasn’t just the cops it’s the school 47:04 districts as well it’s the jobs and not having them it’s 47:07 the answer the health care system all of which we’re able to put into the model 47:11 so they’re excited about it and we’re excited about it it’s all very very 47:15 exciting to me this is the promise of tech is that they have the ability to 47:19 make huge bets and have huge shocks of resources into something that could not 47:25 get done just by hand they have the power to magnify the potential of the 47:28 human spirit and human skill sets right so with those resources right it’s 47:35 important to get wide eyebrow drawing you through all of this stuff it wasn’t 47:38 to tell you about cpe scouts honor that’s a side benefit the real deal is 47:42 in much of the tech spaces that I’ve dealt with these are these are 47:47 professional nerds like myself okay in fact they call themselves professional 47:52 geeks where the Nerds we get dekes and nerd we have fights it’s it’s very it’s 47:55 a lot of slapping huh but the long and short of it is we all 47:58 deal with data and so it’s fun to think the data can be a solved for this and 48:02 it’s true in law enforcement if you hold police departments and shift lieutenants 48:06 accountable for their data not just in terms of crimes but also in terms of 48:09 metrics of justice I see VERA here doing ComStat 2.0 think 48:13 about this has ComStat for racial disparities that we can reduce the 48:17 racial disparities it’s very very exciting but it’s only as useful as the 48:20 theory that’s driving the data collection data are only as useful as 48:25 the theory that drives it and that creates a problem because if everybody 48:30 gets together and says we think we’ve got big bets over here what are they 48:33 ignoring over there you kind of the narrow focus or the wrong sets of people 48:37 and Martin likes to say the people who are closest to the problem are the 48:39 closest to the solution and usually the ones kept furthest away from the 48:42 resources this is an issue as tech begins to make huge bets because the data will 48:50 lead you is always a false profit right so we can go fast but in what direction 48:58 and we can go certain and confidently we can do evidence based not just evidence 49:03 in form but at what cost what are we leaving off the table I 49:08 think frankly if you I mean she’s far away from me so if I’m 49:11 embarrassing her it’ll take her a little while to get to me 49:13 I think what Chloe’s been doing it open philanthropy is one of the sort of 49:16 that’s one of the model stories from making sure you’re making the right sets 49:21 of bets because you’re talking to the people both on the ground and the people 49:24 who’ve been thinking about this for a long time but I think we have a question 49:27 as a field as an industry if you will is how do we work if tech becomes a 49:34 monopoly how do we think through this if there’s one business sector which has a 49:39 deep culture that is unfamiliar to folks who are not in it and then they become 49:45 the owners of much of the nonprofit space moving from 80 million to 200 49:50 million in the course of two years with estimates of 500 million coming annually 49:55 in the course of the next five years that swamps everything that traditional 50:00 philanthropy has been doing and so if we don’t have the right sets of theories 50:04 set up to solve our problems we’re in danger that the wrong sets of 50:08 voices will be amplified and the wrong sets of problems are gonna get solved my 50:15 home base is racism that’s the thing I study right within that I study policing 50:21 and our theories in that space are absolutely antiquated they have they’re 50:27 completely divorced from the experiences of black and brown people who’ve been 50:30 catching hell for the last 25 years black brown people been catching hell 50:33 for longer than that but the last 25 years the theory is completely divorced 50:36 from that how much more so the way that we’ve been thinking about criminal 50:39 justice without the voices of justice involved individuals so that’s a 50:44 question I don’t have an answer other than to say given the space that we’re 50:48 in and the tremendous opportunity that are the opportunities that are in front 50:51 of us I will say we got to organize we got to get the theories right we got to 50:57 decide on what you said of big bets are which means that the folks who have and 51:01 forgive me for saying this but it’s it’s a big space but an intimate group of 51:04 folks here we’ve been fighting like the the first chapter of Invisible Man 51:08 battle royale for electrified coins that public people have been giving to us 51:11 right and many of us who eat off of this I’m fortunate I’m faculty I don’t draw a 51:16 salary from CPE my only salary is because Carol lets me make it right so 51:21 and that’s stable because tenure is a nice thing to have but for 51:25 the folks who eat off of this how often have you found yourself looking at 51:29 somebody over in the same kind of space and thinking I thought we could do that 51:33 yeah that’s great but our thing is better where our thing is good too and 51:37 why can’t we and too often what that does is it prevents us from sharing and 51:43 figuring out and building what are the collaborative big bets and my concern is 51:48 to three years from now there’s gonna be too late to figure out what the right 51:52 sets of theories are you’re gonna be too far down the road on many of these 51:56 things to go backwards cuz philanthropy has a momentum of its own right Silicon 52:01 Valley it’s new to this they won’t be new to this in five years they’re gonna 52:03 be looking for results on the things they’ve already funded so my hope is as 52:07 we’re opening up to questions oh I have 22 more minutes to talk No 52:10 okay as we open this up to questions that we’re gonna have to be able to have 52:14 a conversation not just in terms of what tech can build for us but what tech 52:18 ownership does to us and with us and what our responsibility is as they are 52:24 getting comfortable making our wildest dreams possible all right that’ll be it 52:28 thank you professor before we throw the questions out to the audience I just 52:40 want to do a couple of sort of circle ups with some of the you know Chloe 52:44 touched on this point but I wanted to dig in a little bit deeper on on the 52:48 companies that are that are here and to talk about to Phil’s point around how do 52:54 we I mean I just want to hear from from from Jacob and from Oggy about how you 52:58 are growing businesses for-profit businesses and companies and leading 53:07 with a moral core in a field that has a really rough history and frankly current 53:14 reality of for-profit companies not have not being very based in a moral core I 53:22 just like to hear some of your thoughts on that yeah it’s not easy that’s the 53:28 short answer the the long answer is that we have to make sure that our values 53:33 drive every decision that we make we have we’ve written down our values 53:38 and we we go over them all the time we we have meetings and we sit down and we 53:43 talk about our values and we make sure that that everybody on the team 53:48 first of all everybody the teaming contributed to the values so it wasn’t 53:52 just one person came up with these values but so we make sure that that 53:57 when we’re making the decision that we make we’re making them with what the 54:01 mindset of you know our values come first and then we make the decision 54:04 based on our values um so in the space that we work in a lot of people are 54:10 profiting for them from those are incarcerated and we are in a position 54:13 where if we become successful we can take out those those giant companies 54:18 that have just been making hand over fist of money from those who are locked 54:21 up that’s the reason we got into telecommunications as well because it’s 54:26 it’s very expensive to make a phone call from prison or a 54:30 jail to somebody who you love and a lot of people who have who are incarcerated 54:34 have family members you know they’re a father their uncle they’re our mother 54:38 they’re our sister to somebody so staying in contact is is is is essential 54:45 so having a successful re-entry after incarceration so with those with those 54:52 um those huge contracts that are paid out to some of these companies by by 54:57 facilities and States comes revenue sharing and and revenue sharing for for 55:04 the facilities so that’s very enticing for the states and for the facility so 55:09 our job is not easy but the more we we speak on what our values are and what 55:16 our mission is and the more we were able to sit down and have these conversations 55:20 with those who are in positions to make these decisions to either bring us in or 55:26 bring somebody in they they’re able to really see that the importance of of 55:31 lower in these these prices of communication and of bringing in 55:35 education free of charge to those who are incarcerated because if you know a 55:41 company can bring in communications and education but if they’re charging huge 55:45 amounts of money to those who are incarcerated then it defeats the purpose 55:48 because only a select few or be able to afford 55:50 that and that’s that’s not that’s not a model that’s gonna kind of work because 55:55 the majority people who are incarcerated come from from a background where where 56:00 they did not have access to resources financial resources and many times 56:06 that’s the reason why they are in the position that they are in so quickly I 56:10 guess I would just say like practically the the biggest issue about a business 56:14 in this space is as a business surely you want to think about your customer 56:18 and your customer if you’re trying to sell into sort of the criminal justice 56:21 system usually doesn’t give a shit about people going through the system and so 56:26 whereas in tech usually you’re trying to think about the end user and those are 56:30 two different things here so if you if you think about yourself to limit let 56:33 like limited and try to decel product so your customer is paying you you can 56:37 often go awry if you don’t think about sort of the values and which is one of 56:41 the things we always try to say is if we ever have a request for a feature we say 56:45 does this help the end user if it doesn’t like we’ve been asked to build a 56:48 geolocation into our product we won’t build it secondly it’s an issue about 56:54 the capital formation exercise which is to say you know money comes in as an 56:59 investment and wants to see your return and so it’s tricky I think in this space 57:03 to find the right investors so for us our only outside investor that we would 57:07 take initially was like the Draper Richards Kaplan Foundation because they 57:11 were understood that we weren’t going to necessarily maximize in the short-term 57:14 profit over impact thank you great I want to hear a little bit more about 57:20 your what you’re thinking with the last mile or programs like it 57:25 in terms of how we can scale these programs you hear incredible stories 57:29 especially coming out of some with California where a lot of this 57:33 innovation has been happening and I’m just so curious you know last mile and 57:36 it started you’re one of the first founding members now it’s you were 57:39 saying graduated 500 people 200 people actually 200 how do we grow it what’s 57:46 what’s what’s stopping it from growing well you know the focus really at the 57:51 last mile has been not really to just scale immediately you can go to every 57:56 single prison right away and go shallow and wide we’re really focused on going 58:01 narrow and really deep with what we’re doing we’re trying to really bring a 58:07 sustainable program to the table so that when we do scale it doesn’t fall apart 58:12 in five years three you know three four or five years we want the last mile to 58:16 continue into the future and and you know create pathways to economics you 58:21 know sustainability for the people inside prison when they get out they can 58:26 you know break the cycle of incarceration for themselves their 58:30 families and then the community so yeah that’s where we’re at we’re really 58:34 focused on on just building the best product that we can to take to the other 58:39 places we’ve had interest from thirty other states so far and so the interest 58:43 has been there and I got to give it to Kristen Beverly because you know they 58:48 come from you know a lean startup mentality you know they’ve brought that 58:52 kind of mentality to this nonprofit and what we’re building right now is 58:56 something that I think is you’re gonna be hearing about it for years to come 59:01 just say on the scale point scale is like a beloved word of tech and 59:08 then just being in this work of course why wouldn’t you want like the good 59:11 things to be as big as possible as fast as possible helping as many people as 59:15 possible so I’m like sympathetic to that I’ve also you know and then in terms of 59:20 thinking about this problem so many of the at least advocacy solutions that 59:25 I’ve been a part of both as a practitioner now is enough and now and 59:28 as a funder haven’t felt like they’re on the path to scale and so that’s a 59:32 frustration at the same time it’s really hard for me to sort of hear this but I 59:39 think it’s important like this is as you know but Vinita was saying I suppose 59:43 yesterday people talk about it being a 40-year problem that’s more like a 400 59:47 or 4,000 your problem it’s an old problem the problems underneath the 59:50 problems though the ramp up has been recent the sorts of structures we’re 59:54 talking about the race and so like racial dynamics in this country at least 59:58 are really go very deep so it’s what I’m trying to hold is to move quickly and 60:03 establish some values and an approach and invest in like big ideas but with 60:11 the long view and the sense that like if we’re really going to take this on 60:14 if we’re really gonna accomplish the goal which for me is ending mass 60:18 incarceration in the deeper sense of the word not just reducing the number of 60:21 people in jails and prisons but ending incarcerated communities in this country 60:24 it’s gonna take a lot of time and thinking about what are the deep long 60:28 relationships that have to be built between and across different parts of 60:33 the ecosystem in order to sustain that type of effort and then what is the role 60:37 of philanthropy in relationship to that knowing by the way that I have no commit 60:41 no none of these stoners and tack are like we’re in for 20 years I mean they 60:45 say we’re risk tolerant and we can be patient at the same time they’re always 60:50 looking for how to do the most good so if if you could like cure you know 60:54 malaria tomorrow with 12 billion dollars I think they’d probably do it cuz that 60:59 would to them be the highest good and then you know potentially leaving this 61:02 in the lurch I don’t mean to say that I think that tech folks like are 61:07 irresponsible I think that they recognize like that once you start 61:10 investing in a space you have to probably follow through on that but it’s 61:13 it’s attention move fast move slow bill deep go wide like all of these things 61:18 holding it once and I could all I can say is like we’re just trying to you 61:21 know do our best with that as I suppose everyone in this room is as well thank 61:26 you I want to save some time for questions from the audience there’s 61:29 probably microphones moving around are there any yeah right down here great 61:42 hi my name is Kristen and I’m with a southern Coalition for social justice 61:46 and I’m a southerner on a mission to make the South the best place it can be 61:50 and one of the problems I struggle with someone who went to Stanford and spent 61:55 four years in the Silicon Valley is that coming back to the south there’s not a 62:00 lot of people doing this work in tech it was very limited in resources but though 62:05 there’s also a problem that a lot of these criminal justice organizations in 62:08 the south don’t know what technology could do for them so you know I know the 62:13 professor’s of Stanford to talk to you about some of these things that might 62:16 come to conferences like these it might see some of this but you know even our 62:19 most of our officers our lawyers who don’t even know that there might be a 62:24 code that could be written to save them so many hours of time or to find these 62:29 research opportunities and so I two-part question of how can we help criminal 62:34 justice organizations that don’t come from the major cities or major urban 62:37 areas understand how to use tech for their work and then also how can we 62:42 build out this technology support system for when they do know how to use the 62:47 tech and want to implement it in our organization thank you 62:51 I just I’m gonna put you on the spot Jacob because you we had a great 62:55 discussion about Mississippi earlier but any open it up to the larger sure so I 62:59 think a few things so one is sometimes people like there needs to be a 63:04 demystification of tech and so like the system that Eli and I built to start was 63:09 like not some app that required like 20 million dollars from venture capital 63:13 funding so I think some of it is just like understanding what’s out there some 63:16 of its leveraging organizations that do want to do good so there’s like one 63:20 Benetech there’s also like Code for America and fine like local groups that 63:25 are you know able to ride these services I guess this relates to certain areas in 63:29 the south yeah like it’s tricky like we’re trying to figure out ways to work 63:33 in Mississippi and it’s tough because there’s not like a county funded public 63:38 defender and so how do we sort of tie into their system and provide our 63:41 outreach it’s tricky so to some extent it’s sort 63:44 of a chicken the egg problem it’s a technology issue but it’s also sort of 63:47 structural 63:54 baahir Mujahid of the southern Coalition for social justice and all of us or none 63:59 which is the organization comprised the formerly incarcerated individuals and 64:03 their family I worked with this intelligent young lady in the south and 64:08 what she says is true I have something to say 64:12 your name sir with the glasses – yes sir to the right of mr. cells yes sir your 64:17 name again you sir fell I’m a community organizer so the value of what you said 64:25 that we must organize and keep the impacted ones involved in the influence 64:31 of data it’s very important so I’m gonna take that back into what I’m doing but 64:36 mr. sills what you’re doing is a very wonderful thing as far as participatory 64:41 defense goes helping people get to court so they don’t get jammed up with them 64:46 FTAs I’m amazed you know they had this thing called trap star and you know it’s 64:52 to stop people from getting caught up in our traffic stops but it’s information 64:57 fed by the individual that rides by and see the stop Doug does each attorney you 65:04 know put that data in each and every case they have so it terms of like how 65:09 our stuff works so what we do is we tie into like the county case management 65:13 system or the public defender and so they just have to give us some 65:16 information about the needs and then we’re able to tie in and say oh we know 65:20 you know Jacobs got a court date in a week we know he has a you know he goes 65:25 to school so let’s remind him to you know make sure to manage his schedule so 65:28 we can take all that and automate it okay and how can I get that to Durham 65:33 North Carolina if this we can we can talk afterwards thank you alright and 65:37 another thing I learned something about apparel sir 65:40 in the state of Oklahoma they have automatic card readers that can scan the 65:46 technology that can scan your money in account and sees it where you’re aware 65:52 of that the state of Oklahoma’s law enforcement Department do you have 65:56 anything to counter that or how can we resist that coming 66:00 oh shit I don’t think I heard it all the way yeah were you aware that law 66:07 enforcement in the state of Oklahoma has a device that can read your card and 66:12 seize the money off of it should they believe that the money is associated 66:17 with an illicit activity so you’re saying read your card meaning 66:22 like a credit card or a debit yes sir and they can actually seize money from 66:26 the yes sir they you educated man no okay well I 66:31 challenge you to look it up and then the path of peril that has me very paranoid 66:36 you know because black men are getting tackled for conceal open carry guns so 66:42 imagine if you dress nice and the money you got was your income tax thank you 66:48 thank you take more questions you’ve final thoughts from any of the panelists 66:59 here I just want to say that you know there are so many men and women on the 67:07 inside who are serving time right now who are just you know working really 67:12 really hard to transform their lives and it’s conferences like this people 67:15 concerned citizens out here coming from all different you know backgrounds and 67:20 different organizations coming together to speak on these issues and take next 67:23 steps to move things forward you know it’s easy to lose hope you know when 67:27 you’re on the inside you don’t really you’re not aware of these kind of 67:29 conferences that are happening and you know I’m going in to CIW we’re 67:34 launching the program their last mile at California Institute for women next week 67:38 and I can’t wait to share with them what I saw here over the last two days you 67:44 know all the passion and work that’s gone into this and I just feel really 67:47 hopeful about the future and I I plan on sharing that hope with them when I go 67:51 there next week so thank you everybody for coming thank you to all our 67:56 panelists thank you for for joining us 68:07 you Post navigation How to make a Toy Insect Robot Watch Films Online; How Can You Protect Yourself From Traps?